He would actually advance working class interests though, and all billionaire/corporate funding to the Democrats would be cut off as a result; Dems wouldn’t let that happen.
That’s the point of liberal “democracies” after all: keeping capitalists in power.
Get organized, that excuse of a democracy won’t save you.
So instead of democracy, then what, in your opinion?
You need a congealed working class before you can have a democracy. Right now, we have a fractured and alienated working class, so all we get are the motions.
- Gigantic voting districts where elected officials are lucky to know one constituent in 10,000.
- Systematic disenfranchisement of young voters, poc, and the internally displaced.
- Strict limits placed on individual bureaucrats who must pander to the broadly empowered private business interests.
- A fully captured court system that can tip the scales of an election.
- No regional autonomy. No public civil defense. No guarantee of political education. No right to free association of labor.
How do you engage with a democracy on those terms? What democracy is there to engage with? An election that is simply another consumer choice isn’t democratic. You still have no control over what you’re being offered and no participation on how the system is administered.
What you’ve listed are critiques. I agree with many of them. What I’m asking specifically is if not democracy, then what instead?
On paper, the United States is a federal republic, that votes for representatives for a bicameral parliamentary system that derives jurisprudence from English Common Law.
In practice, it’s a plutocratic oligarchy.
For context, I consider myself to be a market socialist who still wants a representative federal republic for the United States.
I have my own ideas for re-enfranchisement for the working class:
- abolish “first-past-the-post”
- restructure gerrymandered voting districts
- implement ranked choice voting
- constitutional amendment for term limits for every elected position
- allow cross-party voting in primaries
- abolishing Citizens United (what a cynically ironic name for what it actually allows for)
These points are only achievable by voting for candidates who advocate for such policies which is admittedly a long shot, given the average citizen’s knowledge of civics, political theory, economics, and statistics but it’s what I believe can work.
Or would you prefer autocracy? The “dictatorship of the proletariat”? Monarchy? Theocracy? Anarchy? Oligarchy? Syndicalism?
My ultimate point is that you seem to still want “democracy”, but you want it in practice, not just on paper, despite your claim of the point of democracies is to “keep capitalists in power”.
These points are only achievable by voting for candidates who advocate for such policies which is admittedly a long shot
Politics is the art of the possible. The entire job of political leadership is to advocate for policy change.
Again, My question to you is if not democracy, then what? Or do you actually want democracy? Please propose your alternative to democracy, given your claim about its purpose in “keeping capitalists in power”.
Or do you actually want democracy?
I want good policy.
If my democracy is producing bad candidates and bad policies, what purpose does it serve?
your alternative to democracy, given your claim about its purpose in “keeping capitalists in power”.
Capitalism is serviced by the illusion of choice in a functional monopoly. The solution is to break up the monopoly.
But that’s a Herculean task.
You can’t get good policy without democracy because democracy is part of all good policy. Non-democracy violates inalienable rights, which makes it inherently bad policy
Democracy is the answer, democrats are not.
We need a real progressive party
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The elites cackling at Bernie’s funeral: he told them exactly what the problem was and how to fix it and they ignored him LOLOLOLOL
This man would be TOO good for any country. His visions are out of this world, he would have a lot of powerful enemies. Americans would probably kill him in the first month of an hypothetical presidency.
so some geriatrics are ok huh
It helps when their brain isn’t actively dripping out of their ears😁. But yeah, wouldn’t you rather have someone who you actually agree with that’s old? Besides, Bernie would have won 2016 if anything, he was almost a decade younger at that point.
most geriatric ears are loaded with enough hairs to at least slow down any leakage. i can agree with the ideas of some geriatrics sure but there have been quite a few ive been loathe to share the planets oxygen with. most of them in politics. for every decent one like bernie, there are at least 6 that are diametrically aligned.
Bernie Sanders told me to vote for Hilary Clinton so I voted for Hilary Clinton.
And then Bernie Sanders told me to vote for Joe Biden so I voted for Joe Biden.
And then Bernie Sanders told me to vote for Kamala Harris so I voted for Kamala Harris.
And now Trump is President again.
I’m beginning to think this guy might not have all the answers.
correct answers are wholly dependent on factual, unadultrrated, information. trumps crew is populated by numerous adulterers so the game id rigged at the outset
He endorsed the best chance there was to stop fascists from taking power. To do anything else would’ve been stupid.
It’s not his fault the dems keep royally fucking it up. It’s not like he has any decision-making power in their party.
He endorsed the best chance there was to stop fascists from taking power
He endorsed them as a last resort when all else had failed. And he immediately became a scapegoat for Clinton after she, too, failed.
What makes Sanders good isn’t his relentless flogging of the turds the DNC push out every four years.
It’s not his fault the dems keep royally fucking it up
No. But I dread to see what kind of hack he’s replaced with when he retires
Lemmy: get old people out of politics!
Also Lemmy: vote Bernie!
Pick a lane guys
It’s almost as if younger politicians with similar policy goals have been actively suppressed…
Yes, everyone collectively agree to say only one thing. You’re on a discussion forum for fucks sake!
See how I got downvoted? Seems differing opinions aren’t tolerated at all
No one reported your comment, no one asked you to delete it, it hasn’t been removed…you’re being tolerated, you’re just not getting approval. You’re not entitled to people’s approval.
Sanders put out a statement today:
Before I finished reading I was gonna say that while I love Bernie, him talking shit now seemed pretty “hindsight 20/20” considering he endorsed her.
But the “serious convo” and “stay tuned” is interesting. I hope he overthrows DNC or starts his own shit with AOC.
Dude, most of us kept our mouth shut as to not dissuade people from voting. Obviously it wasn’t enough. But now we can gripe and cope freely.
Exactly, dividing the left-wing even more would only lead to failure. The best action was to unify to squeak by, but it didn’t work this time obviously.
I’ve been catching a lot of flack lately from other leftists because I’ve been preaching the lesser evil for 4 months. That’s profoundly stupid, but I get it. Maybe I should’ve shilled even harder, anyway here we are.
At least it’ll be nice to stop justifying evil just because it’s lesser.
He endorsed her because it’s at least better than Trump. Best of a no win situation
Bernie’s 2020 campaign national press secretary:
Yeah. There it is. I hope he’s able to speak his mind finally. We need him.
I appreciate BJG giving him a little shit because it was honestly irritating seeing him bow down to the DNC, at the same time, I think he truly thought he could push them left and that Trump is an existential threat to democracy.
Now he’s seen over and over that the DNC has no intention of actually changing and was just paying lip service to the left, I hope he has big plans.
He’s not going to run in 2028. AOC is going to run in 2028. And she’ll lose just like Kamala did, because she’s been bowing to the donors as well.
I never said he would, and I agree that AOC has conformed to the DNC way more then she should have, but it goes back to the same basic fear tactic the DNC has been using to keep them in line, hopefully it’s now clear (as it seems to be with Bernies post) that they’re full of shit
Edit: My hope is a real grassroots movement to incite change and promote progressive ideals without the DNC influence, our revolution was kinda like that but it fizzled out under the weight of the DNC and Bernie wasn’t front and center leading it. Just imo
DSA doesn’t seem to be picking up steam anymore either. I believe it got infiltrated by wreckers who created divisions within the movement.
You play offense when it’s right to play offense and play defense when you need to play defense. I respect Bernie for knowing he can’t change the system so he will do his part in influencing it.
Everyone fell in line, because the DNC had us all by the balls. I’m tired of it. Now is the time to speak out, not 3.5 years from now.
“Bernie is too old to be president” immediately votes in people just as old 3 times in a roe
Trump being the youngest at 78 is already too old if you ask me. If the US had a ceremonial presidency like many parliamentary republics then that’d be fine but for an active head politician that’s just too old imo
We coulda had a bad bitch.
You need to save these things for future use
If only we could go back in time and make Bernie the Dem candidate and save Harambe.
Not just Harambe, but also Peanut.
I agree 100% we needed him. If you asked me 8 years ago I’d even say I honestly believe we, as Americns, deserve him. I’m now very seriously wondering that. It’s starting to feel like we don’t. Im against collective punishment so I don’t mean to say that implies people who are going to suffer from this deserve their suffering, but I’m not sure that implies we deserve a politician like him. Glad as hell we have him in whatever office we can though.
Just because the shitstains that voted trump dont deserve him doesn’t mean the rest of us dont.
Nowhere did I imply not deserving Sanders means we deserve Trump, in fact I specifically said we don’t deserve collective punishment.
The DNC needs to go. All of it. Literally just gone. There needs to be a real left grassroots party that maintains a much more tight ideological vision and focuses internally.
If Bernie Sanders leaves the Democratic Party i will follow him.
He won’t. He knows splitting the D vote will guarantee an R win. Unlike many voters who think they’re making a statement.
At this point i think i am done with the Democratic Party.
Then, unfortunately, you are with the republicans. I’m personally looking forward to the DNC primaries in 2-3 years. Maybe we’ll see the next Bernie take a stance. The point is, the DNC primaries are where you should make your point.
I’m not American, but because their politics looms so large I’m kind of forced to pay attention. And I have to say, I’m real fucking bored of waiting for the Democrats to back the next Bernie. I swear I’ve been reading about The Next Bernie since they shafted The Original Bernie in 2016.
Well, buckle up. Progress is slow, but if we’re very lucky we’ll see some within our lifetimes. Not in the next 4 years tho.
And this is why the DNC must be destroyed.
You can’t get Americans to vote if you are just like “you don’t deserve an interesting candidate, not in 4 years, not ever” this has been the fucking case since 2016. The DNC had ample time, but they’ve done nothing but drop the ball.
All right. Well good luck destroying the DNC.
It’s really fucking tiring to see you americans singing along to the tune of the ‘us vs them’ rhethoric.
I don’t know what he has planned, but in my book he’s the most likely candidate to break the 2-party system.
Jokes on you, I’m not American at all! I suppose it takes a certain number of years on the planet to see that the 2-party system is not going anywhere. You just have to accept to play within the constraints and hope to get the best you can.
That what i said. I would follow Bernie Sanders
He’s actually an independent, he just works with the Dems to get shit done.
when they aren’t directly obstructing him
He already did, didn’t you see the refreshing band of green next to his name amid all the red and blue? He generally votes the same as the Dems though.
We never got to feel the Bern… :(
I could be wrong but polling I’ve seen says 83% of black men and 93% black women voted Democrat. Latinos and White people voted closer to 50% between the two parties
More importantly, many of them (up to 12M, counting is still ongoing) stayed at home.
Latinos were the biggest loss as far as I can tell. There is a host of reasons why this group crumbled.
Let’s see how they like seeing family members deported.
Not just family members.
If you and your entire family are suddenly thrown in a cage, who are you gonna call to grab your birth certificate from the safe deposit box?
The prince that was promised…
