• the_brownie@lemm.ee
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    1 month ago

    Great. Glad to see that we’re learning nothing here. If I wasn’t pushed into despair by the election results, seeing progressives respond this way to the loss might push me over the edge.

    We are a bigoted country, no doubt. But, our working class is struggling. People are inherently good, inherently bad, brilliant, dumb, and all sorts of combinations of those. Material conditions, messaging, and framing all work together in bringing out these different sides of ourselves both at the societal and individual level.

    Responding to this loss with “the only way to win is to be racist” is basically just giving up and saying the fascists are right. If we decide to roll over and die because we’re too chickenshit to fight, too cynical to have any imagination, and too self-pitying to even lift a finger, the most vulnerable of us (which includes me) will perish.

    We HAVE to be better than this.

    • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      These aren’t progressives. These are liberals. These are the same people who, when they were told 8 years ago that economic anxiety made voters turn to Trump, mocked them, saying, “Oh, I guess the economy made them racist!”

      Yeah, racism and misogyny played a huge role in this election, but people don’t vote for a guy who promises to burn everything down when they’re doing well. I’d have thought this time, given that the Democrats lost ground with both black and Latino voters, they might finally have to acknowledge that their failures are due to more than just bigotry. I’m starting to doubt that, though…

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Responding to this loss with “the only way to win is to be racist” is basically just giving up and saying the fascists are right.

      And the joke is that Dems will still lose on these terms, because they are already branded the Woke party. Might as well try and out-racist the KKK as the GOP. It’s not a race Dems are in a position to win. All they can do is shed even more of their base to Jill Stein and Uncommitted.

    • Moneo@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      The response by so many people has been pathetic. Liberals are learning nothing.

    • SquatDingloid@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      If you look at the voters who voted for the dem in 2020 and sat out this time it was almost all older white men

      Older white men were the demographic that stayed home because they didn’t want to vote for a woman who had identical policies to the man they previously voted for.

      Pretending like white men sat out exclusively because of “inflation” while no other demographic did is probably not the takeaway

      That being said we absolutely need to kill the Duopoly, hopefully a third progressive party can exist with the Dems sucking corporate cock

      • MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
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        1 month ago

        I keep telling myself I won’t comment on political posts, and yet here I go again.

        If we stop looking at non-voters, and start actually looking at voters, you’ll see that Trump gained support among both women and non-white voters. Why is nobody asking about that? I would rather they have stayed home than given Trump the extra vote, but all you hear about now is low turn out in white men. She lost in almost every bloc because she didn’t inspire any of the dem base. High turnout skews dem and she was just not an inspiring candidate.

        Kamala had no time to campaign, was an unknown to voters despite being the VP, made no strides to distance herself from Biden, and failed to run a cohesive strategy. People just were not excited to vote for her. Do I think a popularity contest is the best way to elect the president, no, but that doesn’t change the system that we have.

        The race was extremely close, and the fact that Trump GAINED in POC and women blocs probably speaks more to the campaign that was run rather than America’s inherent sexism or racism. Just to be clear, America is sexist and racist, and people can be self hating or whatever, but she GAINED points in the white male category and lost in the black male category. Sure, white men should have shown up, but it’s very easy to cry “racism/sexism” if you ignore all the other people who didn’t show up or the people who DID show up and voted trump. She might’ve run as well as she could have, but it was a bad campaign.

        There was a 5% loss in young voters. I wonder how energized they would have been not just to vote but to donate and volunteer had she run a different campaign. It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback, but Joe ruined the chances of a dem winning this year.

        If dems still want to blame racism/sexism, then I don’t want to see any dems support POC/women in primaries. Dems should only run white males and if I see a POC/woman being pushed again I will assume they want to sabotage that year. I expect “I’m not voting for a POC/woman candidate” to be a well regarded and widespread dem opinion for practicality sake. Either stop running them ever, or admit they can win with better campaign strategies. You can’t have it both ways.

        Going off these numbers: https://www.nbcwashington.com/decision-2024/2024-voter-turnout-election-demographics-trump-harris/3762138/

        • Guy Dudeman@lemmy.worldOP
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          1 month ago

          There was also a significant portion of black men who voted Trump because they were misogynists. It’s just a fact.

          But that’s still not discounting the fact that someone with Bernie’s message and goals would have won in a landslide.

          • MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
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            1 month ago

            I can’t speak to the misogyny, but to your second point, I try so hard to not mention him because your opinion gets disregarded in dem spaces as soon as you bring him up. He did everything right and dems would rather lose than actually be progressive.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        If you look at the voters who voted for the dem in 2020 and sat out this time it was almost all older white men

        Jill Stein won 22% of the vote in the fiercely contested city of Dearborn, Michigan, according to a projection from NBC.

        Kamala Harris won 28%, while Donald Trump won 47%, according to unofficial results from the city clerk, reported by the network.

        Metro Detroit is home to the nation’s largest concentration of Arab Americans, with a large proportion of them living in Dearborn. The city—which Democrat Joe Biden won by a 3-to-1 margin in 2020—has been roiled by political turmoil, with many upset with the Biden-Harris administration’s handling of the Israel-Hamas war.

      • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        If you look at the voters who voted for the dem in 2020 and sat out this time it was almost all older white men

        Sorry, can I have a source for this? How could they determine the gender of non-voters?

    • Guy Dudeman@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 month ago

      Responding to this loss with “the only way to win is to be racist” is basically just giving up and saying the fascists are right.

      Nobody is saying that.

      • Sarmyth@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        I mean… it’s hard to interpret “the problem is her messaging is she didnt come across as a white man with grievances…” as anything but claiming sexism and racism. There’s hyperbole there, but blaming the loss on those factors assumes that people couldn’t have possibly abstained from voting, or voted against her without those factors. I don’t believe that’s the case.

        Too frequently we call people these things and basically lock them out of discussion. For example, if you called me a racist, I’d no longer trust anything else you said to me because I know myself and clearly you like telling people things you know nothing about. I think that exchange happened with a bunch of people, which is why there were so many people who just assumed many of the things said about Trump were just political lies made to discredit him. After they experienced the same hyperbole themselves.

        That said… theres alot of bigots out there too.