Nice whataboutism. Not saying anything about the reason, but you automatically go for the “the others do it too.”
I just question the honesty of the postulation in the meme.
Since the father is more often than not in the picture, as is evidenced by data collected and more often than not an argument for why black men fall into crime more often than others, it is a valid question. Dont know why a doctor would ask such a question though. Seems fake.
Lol that’s a stereotype. One parent not being in the picture is a poverty thing. Not a black thing. Since poverty disproportionately effects black Americans out seems like it’s a black problem but it’s a system of oppression problem.
Look at the graphs and compare the relative Poverty between latinos as blacks. Then looks at the graphs showing single mothers.
There is some correlation between poverty and single motherhood, clearly. But there is definitely a great disparity between the various poor that you just can’t wave off as “racism”.
It might be systematic, but not only a system perpetrated by the white majority, cause then the graphs would be equal for latonis and blacks. So perhaps there is a systemic issue within the black community causing men to not take responsibility for their own children?
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00027162221120759
Not everyone believes this, but my understanding is that declassified (CIA I think? been a while) documents support the assertion that parts of our government employed a strategy designed to disrupt black communities. This strategy involved flooding predominantly black neighborhoods with crack cocaine, and then letting addiction, crime, and incarceration take their course.
It worked really well.
And then add in policies over the years that have perversely incentivized splitting up households (much-needed aid not available depending on who lives in the home), too, which may have been well-intentioned but proved very damaging to communities.
And we should also not forget - when comparing poverty outcomes between black and Latino Americans - these groups did not start from equivalent points. The practice of slavery did lasting, massive damage to the black community in the US - it’s basically impossible to extract present outcomes from that history. Far too much trauma.
Behind the Bastards did an early episode on it, I think the takeaway was that there isn’t some memo where Reagan cackles while saying he’s going to do it for these reasons, but there sure were a lot of CIA programs that actively encouraged cocaine and heroin being imported into the US while the drug war revved up simultaneously and AIDs got ignored, so one can certainly see how it sure looks like there was a massive government conspiracy to destroy black communities.
I haven’t heard that one, but they did like a crossover a year or two back with the Hood Politics podcast I believe that was a multi episode deep dive into the topic. Given how few details I apparently remember, probably worth a re-listen for me too, but you oughta give it a whirl!
Lol this doesn’t give any context and has cherry picked data with poor controls over variables. (Like why is a parent missing? Is it due to over incarceration and policing of black communities? Is it due to poor financial state of schools in black communities? What classifies a single mother? Does that mean the father is not in the child’s life at all or just not currently in a relationship with the mother? What about single father’s? Is that accounted for?)
There’s nothing in the black community or genetics. It’s all outside societal pressures. There are hundreds of studies on this by way more reputable sources with vastly different conclusions. The black community is no different when it comes to wanting to have a family and wanting to be involved with that family. But Black Americans ( especially black women) deal with outside factors that essentially guarantees most black Americans are second class citizens.
The fact that you “know it’s a talking point” but don’t know the statistics makes me feel that you should re-think who created the statistics in the first place and why.
Data for this study comes from the LIS, which is an archive of cross-nationally
and historically harmonized individual-level nationally representative datasets.
U.S. data in the LIS come from the Annual Social and Economic March
Supplement of the CPS. The main advantage of using the LIS over the underly-
ing CPS is the higher-quality and improved income measures that comprehen-
sively incorporate taxes and transfers and therefore yield improved poverty
measures. I analyze twenty-five waves of LIS data for the United States from
1995 to 2018. I select this time period because it includes all the U.S. datasets for
which all variables in the study are available.1
it seems more research exploring the role of structural forces (e.g., the labor market, policies, racism, etc.) would be a fruitful avenue for advancing our understanding of the enduring racial inequality in child poverty and the penalties attached to child poverty risks.
Even your article calls out that racism is a major factor that should be studied. Glad you agree.
Not the argument.
Nor is there an argument here.
The question could be boiled down to: are there more black single mothers? Yes, categorically, unequivocally yes.
Doesn’t say anything about the fathers race though, granted. I kinda went by the fact that most couples are not “mixed race”. Which is a bit presumtous by me, but not a bad presumtion given history.
Haven’t made any claims of any reasons. Just that it is. And therefore the last statement in the meme is kinda meh and sticks out among the others.
You didn’t ask me anything? You made a slightly condescending comment.
You quoted something that isn’t relevant to my point. But i acknowledge the existence of a flaw in my thinking, in that the fact doesn’t say anything about the race of the father.
A statistic isn’t popular, it just is.
And the meme is dishonest for pretending it doesn’t exist.
the last statement in the meme is kinda meh and sticks out among the others.
If it sticks out you’re missing the point of the chain of statements.
It’s not that the other statements are or are not statistically justified, it’s that making comments to people that are clearly being made because of their race and perceptions about their race is something that tends to happen regularly to black people and other minorities, and not so much to others.
It is more common for black fathers to be absent according to certain demographic measures.
However: race is not the only factor to the statistic, and the statistic in not defined well through time.
At one point “divorced or never married mother” was the basis for the statistic. Shifting it to “father lives in a separate home” is better but still misses that you can live in a separate home and still be there for your kid. That’s before you get to adoptive fathers and all the other non-biological support roles.
For all those measures, economics is a better predictor than race. Race serving as an indirect measure of economics is its own can of worms and bias.
Finally, a question can be statistically valid and still be biased, inappropriate, or just rude.
“You’re black, so I don’t want to assume your child’s father is around” is all of those.
If you have no data about the “fact” (I wish I could highlight even more how much that is NOT a fact) and are asking users to provide evidence that supports that to you, maybe the question is not legit then, is it?
No, it wasn’t. It wasn’t rhetorical. You were being racist and biased in your question and now trying to hide behind rhetorics. You think you’re the first person with bias I’ve seen who’s trying to “I was joking!” his way out of their bigotry? Lol
for you to see the flaw in the picture painted by the “meme”
There is no “flaw” in the comic. It’s showing the VERY REAL difference in treatment among white and black people
Look at the graphs for single motherhood
Maybe you should actually read the article before asking me to look only at a specific portion of the whole story. Especially since, at the very beginning, the author herself wrote
But a growing literature is demonstrating how the impact of single parenthood and family structure on children varies by racial group, including evidence that Black children experience smaller single motherhood “penalties” for some outcomes, like education.
So, once again, your comment was poorly thought out. The article you yourself shared, was exploring HOW they differ and it even talked about possible socioeconomic reasons for why there are differences. What it didn’t do, is carrying out a census to show if indeed black men are more likely to leave their families.
And now, please stop trying to wiggle your way out of your bigoted comment. I don’t care about such sad attempts. Bye
Just because you don’t know what rhetorical means, doesn’t mean it wasn’t rhetorical.
The study is about the correlation between single-motherhood and child poverty. Don’t take a random quote from the article in some attempt at gotcha, when you didn’t even address the question.
It doesn’t really conclude anything other than the evidence is showing that marriage might not be the great savoir of children from poverty that some might think.
That does NOT change the fact that black women by far in a way are the largest single mother group according to the data.
Now, ill grant you that it doesn’t say anything about the race of the father. There might well be hispanic, white and Asian men that are the fathers in question.
Just ignoring the fact doesn’t help. Poverty doesn’t explain the entire discrepancy. Unjustly incarecerated black men might be an answer? Justly incarecerated black men? Chauvinistic tendencies in a social group?
More to the point of the meme. It’s a legit question. Rude and racist, but true. All the other questions in the meme are blatantly racist since they don’t even quantify.
Last question is pretty legit though. Isn’t there data of how many black kids grow up without a father?
Plenty of white guys that ditched, divorced, etc their partners after getting them pregnant as well.
Nice whataboutism. Not saying anything about the reason, but you automatically go for the “the others do it too.” I just question the honesty of the postulation in the meme. Since the father is more often than not in the picture, as is evidenced by data collected and more often than not an argument for why black men fall into crime more often than others, it is a valid question. Dont know why a doctor would ask such a question though. Seems fake.
Black men fall into crime more? I’d love to see a study on that. They get incarcerated at a higher percentage, it’s not the same as actual crime rate.
Lol that’s a stereotype. One parent not being in the picture is a poverty thing. Not a black thing. Since poverty disproportionately effects black Americans out seems like it’s a black problem but it’s a system of oppression problem.
Look at the graphs and compare the relative Poverty between latinos as blacks. Then looks at the graphs showing single mothers. There is some correlation between poverty and single motherhood, clearly. But there is definitely a great disparity between the various poor that you just can’t wave off as “racism”. It might be systematic, but not only a system perpetrated by the white majority, cause then the graphs would be equal for latonis and blacks. So perhaps there is a systemic issue within the black community causing men to not take responsibility for their own children? https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00027162221120759
Not everyone believes this, but my understanding is that declassified (CIA I think? been a while) documents support the assertion that parts of our government employed a strategy designed to disrupt black communities. This strategy involved flooding predominantly black neighborhoods with crack cocaine, and then letting addiction, crime, and incarceration take their course.
It worked really well.
And then add in policies over the years that have perversely incentivized splitting up households (much-needed aid not available depending on who lives in the home), too, which may have been well-intentioned but proved very damaging to communities.
And we should also not forget - when comparing poverty outcomes between black and Latino Americans - these groups did not start from equivalent points. The practice of slavery did lasting, massive damage to the black community in the US - it’s basically impossible to extract present outcomes from that history. Far too much trauma.
Behind the Bastards did an early episode on it, I think the takeaway was that there isn’t some memo where Reagan cackles while saying he’s going to do it for these reasons, but there sure were a lot of CIA programs that actively encouraged cocaine and heroin being imported into the US while the drug war revved up simultaneously and AIDs got ignored, so one can certainly see how it sure looks like there was a massive government conspiracy to destroy black communities.
I haven’t heard that one, but they did like a crossover a year or two back with the Hood Politics podcast I believe that was a multi episode deep dive into the topic. Given how few details I apparently remember, probably worth a re-listen for me too, but you oughta give it a whirl!
Lol this doesn’t give any context and has cherry picked data with poor controls over variables. (Like why is a parent missing? Is it due to over incarceration and policing of black communities? Is it due to poor financial state of schools in black communities? What classifies a single mother? Does that mean the father is not in the child’s life at all or just not currently in a relationship with the mother? What about single father’s? Is that accounted for?)
There’s nothing in the black community or genetics. It’s all outside societal pressures. There are hundreds of studies on this by way more reputable sources with vastly different conclusions. The black community is no different when it comes to wanting to have a family and wanting to be involved with that family. But Black Americans ( especially black women) deal with outside factors that essentially guarantees most black Americans are second class citizens.
And you’d likely still find that out using the same question from the left.
Also just some warning that there is immense racial bias in a lot of data. Take what you’ve heard with a grain of salt.
The fact that you “know it’s a talking point” but don’t know the statistics makes me feel that you should re-think who created the statistics in the first place and why.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00027162221120759
Lmfao, from your article:
Even your article calls out that racism is a major factor that should be studied. Glad you agree.
Not the argument. Nor is there an argument here. The question could be boiled down to: are there more black single mothers? Yes, categorically, unequivocally yes. Doesn’t say anything about the fathers race though, granted. I kinda went by the fact that most couples are not “mixed race”. Which is a bit presumtous by me, but not a bad presumtion given history.
Haven’t made any claims of any reasons. Just that it is. And therefore the last statement in the meme is kinda meh and sticks out among the others.
I asked you to think about why a stat might be popular.
You cited an article without personal comment.
I quoted your article back to you.
You refused to acknowledge the citation as a factor in your statistic, but also don’t have another argument without that statistic.
F
You didn’t ask me anything? You made a slightly condescending comment.
You quoted something that isn’t relevant to my point. But i acknowledge the existence of a flaw in my thinking, in that the fact doesn’t say anything about the race of the father.
A statistic isn’t popular, it just is. And the meme is dishonest for pretending it doesn’t exist.
What’s the point you’re trying to actually make?
If it sticks out you’re missing the point of the chain of statements.
It’s not that the other statements are or are not statistically justified, it’s that making comments to people that are clearly being made because of their race and perceptions about their race is something that tends to happen regularly to black people and other minorities, and not so much to others.
It is more common for black fathers to be absent according to certain demographic measures.
However: race is not the only factor to the statistic, and the statistic in not defined well through time.
At one point “divorced or never married mother” was the basis for the statistic. Shifting it to “father lives in a separate home” is better but still misses that you can live in a separate home and still be there for your kid. That’s before you get to adoptive fathers and all the other non-biological support roles.
For all those measures, economics is a better predictor than race. Race serving as an indirect measure of economics is its own can of worms and bias.
Finally, a question can be statistically valid and still be biased, inappropriate, or just rude.
“You’re black, so I don’t want to assume your child’s father is around” is all of those.
If you have no data about the “fact” (I wish I could highlight even more how much that is NOT a fact) and are asking users to provide evidence that supports that to you, maybe the question is not legit then, is it?
Its a rhetorical question for you to see the flaw in the picture painted by the “meme” https://centerforhealthjournalism.org/our-work/reporting/impact-absent-fathers-mental-health-black-boys
Look at the graphs for single motherhood https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00027162221120759
No, it wasn’t. It wasn’t rhetorical. You were being racist and biased in your question and now trying to hide behind rhetorics. You think you’re the first person with bias I’ve seen who’s trying to “I was joking!” his way out of their bigotry? Lol
There is no “flaw” in the comic. It’s showing the VERY REAL difference in treatment among white and black people
Maybe you should actually read the article before asking me to look only at a specific portion of the whole story. Especially since, at the very beginning, the author herself wrote
So, once again, your comment was poorly thought out. The article you yourself shared, was exploring HOW they differ and it even talked about possible socioeconomic reasons for why there are differences. What it didn’t do, is carrying out a census to show if indeed black men are more likely to leave their families.
And now, please stop trying to wiggle your way out of your bigoted comment. I don’t care about such sad attempts. Bye
Just because you don’t know what rhetorical means, doesn’t mean it wasn’t rhetorical.
The study is about the correlation between single-motherhood and child poverty. Don’t take a random quote from the article in some attempt at gotcha, when you didn’t even address the question.
It doesn’t really conclude anything other than the evidence is showing that marriage might not be the great savoir of children from poverty that some might think. That does NOT change the fact that black women by far in a way are the largest single mother group according to the data. Now, ill grant you that it doesn’t say anything about the race of the father. There might well be hispanic, white and Asian men that are the fathers in question.
Just ignoring the fact doesn’t help. Poverty doesn’t explain the entire discrepancy. Unjustly incarecerated black men might be an answer? Justly incarecerated black men? Chauvinistic tendencies in a social group?
More to the point of the meme. It’s a legit question. Rude and racist, but true. All the other questions in the meme are blatantly racist since they don’t even quantify.
deleted by creator