But you know in this story, the frog was actually taking the scorpion to safety, not waging wars and funding a genocide. Maybe next time if there is no bureaucracy in the party, and you see Mamdani against Trump , you’ll see actual support from the left.
Why would it be mamdani vs Trump? I get the whole trump 3rd term idea and breaking the law to install a dictator but why would the Dems run Mamdani? As a Uganda born individual, he’s not eligible to be president.
lol made up purity tests you use to justify supporting facism aren’t standards.
It doesn’t really matter what excuse you use for suppressing leftist voter turn out, you’re still doing work for the facists which makes you a fascist.
You’re supporting fascist, and I hate that most center people don’t see it. Either die slowly or quickly. I’m willing to at least attempt to change things, you should too.
What’s really baffling is that even the fascist is doing a better job in the context of wars. And if I’m not wrong, those lefties targeted in the meme are just choosing not to participate in the vote, not to support some one. Forcing someone to choose least of two evils might just not be liberty.
If you don’t understand how first past the post voting works you can just say so. You don’t need to waste a bunch of electricity and storage space with a vapid meme.
I was literally going to reply to this pointing out that “protest voters” fit better as the scorpion than MAGA people. The MAGA people didn’t know that Trump was an objective disaster. They just thought he would make a disaster for their enemies and leave them alone. The “I’m too left for Kamala” people did know, and they still decided Trump wasn’t worth resisting, because they wanted to make their point. Or, as the scorpion said, it’s in their nature, and they just felt really strongly that that’s what they wanted to do.
No we haven’t. FDR put in place universal healthcare, universal retirement, jobs for people that want to work so that they’re not subject to whims of the economy as to whether they can feed themselves. Postwar Britain guaranteed housing at reasonable rates to its people. The EPA, the CDC, clean water in your house, all this stuff happens because somebody makes it happen.
Democracy works, if you make it work. All that FDR stuff happened because people had spent decades fighting for their labor rights in the streets, harder than the wealthy were fighting to keep them down. That’s it. That’s how it functions. If instead of that, the labor movement had been filled with strategically incapable losers who said “MAN THE WHIGS DON’T FUCKING REPRESENT ME” and then fucked off to do something else, we’d still be working weekends and getting our arms pulled off in the factories.
This is why people think the whole “protest voter” thing is a psyop: Because it makes so little sense as a strategy for producing positive change. As a way of making sure things get ten times worse and the worst people in the world get to profit, though, it’s a fucking fantastic strategy.
umm, that’s 40 years ago you’re talking about, and it was Harry Truman who came after, so I say it was sinking gradually since then. In any case voting for warmongers is kind of an approval to them, people have every right to distinguish themselves from warmongers.
I don’t really care about labor rights that much in this discussion, but I strongly doubt that you can achieve any by “voting blue, no matter who”, you’re not really voting here imo, you’re just showing the lobbyists that you’re accepting anything blue they offer. The example of FDR only shows that your party has been infiltrated and needs a purge of some kind, instead of unconditional support.
umm, that’s 40 years ago you’re talking about, and it was Harry Truman who came after, so I say it was sinking gradually since then.
Yeah, pretty much. Because things got good and people stopped fighting.
This whole model where “the assholes in power are doing corrupt things and don’t look out for the people” is this shocking surprise, and leads to us needing to disengage from the whole system even more, is wrong. Fight for what you need. That is the way.
I don’t really care about labor rights that much in this discussion, but I strongly doubt that you can achieve any by “voting blue, no matter who”
Good thing I never said that. What I was saying is that “Vote no, no matter who” is a bunch of garbage probably equally unproductive to this elaborate strawman of “vote blue no matter who.”
The example of FDR only shows that your party has been infiltrated and needs a purge of some kind
Yeah, pretty much. If we could start with Schumer and Pelosi that would be great.
Tell me, does “the leftest end of the party refuses to vote anymore” leads to the party moving left? Or right? I can’t remember. Is that a good way to purge the centrists, by withdrawing the leftist input? Maybe there is some kind of history from 1968 - 1992 that I can look to. Or maybe the history of the Democrats since 1992?
If you meant that you wanted people in US to vote for someone like Bernie Sanders then I’m not you’re opponent. I only discard the idea of “vote Biden to prevent Trump” which evolved to “vote Kamala Harris to prevent Trump” even when both are clearly not standing for you really, but “just do it cuz they’re the candidates of the party”.
I’m pretty sure the meme is blaming those who didn’t vote blue in the last American elections, “resulting in Trump winning”.
I’m not discarding the idea of practicing the democratic procedure in your country all together or participating in votes, but rather only the idea of “vote for the lesser of two evils”, as it has only proved to sink the boat so far. I’m arguing against extreme loyalty for the party, for life.
I only discard the idea of “vote Biden to prevent Trump”
Then you are… well, I won’t say you’re my “enemy” exactly. But I think you’re making incredibly stupid decisions, and then being dishonest (“just do it cuz they’re the candidates of the party” when the logic was literally pretty much the opposite of that).
If the house is on fire, then leaving the house is urgent. Preventing Trump was urgent. Saying it’s not worth leaving the house because you don’t like the weather outside is ridiculous, and framing this past election like preventing Trump was not urgent, even now with the benefit of hindsight, shows some really remarkably bad strategic ability, and I don’t think I really want to listen to your political wisdom as to how to look at things or how we can get out of this mess now.
only the idea of “vote for the lesser of two evils”, as it has only proved to sink the boat so far
My point bringing up 1968 and 1992 was that refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils, thus opening the door for a much much greater evil to reset the bar downwards and also motivating the Democrats to move to the right since the left isn’t voting for them anyway, is precisely and exactly what has been sinking the boat.
The “I’m too left for Kamala” people did know, and they still decided Trump wasn’t worth resisting…
Citation needed. I saw them actually resisting, unlike the liberals who paved the way for Trump’s facism. But they claimed it was OK this time, but cause it was the “good guys” doing it.
When it’s time to not vote for Democrats, they’re all yelling and super vigorous, activists with all kinds of passion. When a pro-Palestine, pro-worker candidate comes along, they start shitting on him. When it’s time to get in the streets, it’s fucking crickets.
That’s why I don’t like them. Surely that makes sense. If I saw them actually “resisting” or at least encouraging other people to resist, I’d be a lot less contemptuous of them.
But you know in this story, the frog was actually taking the scorpion to safety, not waging wars and funding a genocide. Maybe next time if there is no bureaucracy in the party, and you see Mamdani against Trump , you’ll see actual support from the left.
Why would it be mamdani vs Trump? I get the whole trump 3rd term idea and breaking the law to install a dictator but why would the Dems run Mamdani? As a Uganda born individual, he’s not eligible to be president.
lol “Just one more purity test bro, then I promise I won’t support the fascist”
People with no standards really hate people with standards.
lol made up purity tests you use to justify supporting facism aren’t standards.
It doesn’t really matter what excuse you use for suppressing leftist voter turn out, you’re still doing work for the facists which makes you a fascist.
The only thing centrists don’t conveniently see as “suppressing voter turnout” is enthusiastic agreement with the worst actions of centrists.
You’re supporting fascist, and I hate that most center people don’t see it. Either die slowly or quickly. I’m willing to at least attempt to change things, you should too.
What’s really baffling is that even the fascist is doing a better job in the context of wars. And if I’m not wrong, those lefties targeted in the meme are just choosing not to participate in the vote, not to support some one. Forcing someone to choose least of two evils might just not be liberty.
lol
It’s refreshing to hear “leftists” just come right out and say they suport the fascist. Thanks for that.
If you don’t understand how first past the post voting works you can just say so. You don’t need to waste a bunch of electricity and storage space with a vapid meme.
So you understood it, and thought that you can vote your way out of late stage capitalism like this?
I was literally going to reply to this pointing out that “protest voters” fit better as the scorpion than MAGA people. The MAGA people didn’t know that Trump was an objective disaster. They just thought he would make a disaster for their enemies and leave them alone. The “I’m too left for Kamala” people did know, and they still decided Trump wasn’t worth resisting, because they wanted to make their point. Or, as the scorpion said, it’s in their nature, and they just felt really strongly that that’s what they wanted to do.
And hey, now we’re sinking! Thanks. Great.
Always have been.
Center people are a psyop
You just hate me cuz I’m right.
No we haven’t. FDR put in place universal healthcare, universal retirement, jobs for people that want to work so that they’re not subject to whims of the economy as to whether they can feed themselves. Postwar Britain guaranteed housing at reasonable rates to its people. The EPA, the CDC, clean water in your house, all this stuff happens because somebody makes it happen.
Democracy works, if you make it work. All that FDR stuff happened because people had spent decades fighting for their labor rights in the streets, harder than the wealthy were fighting to keep them down. That’s it. That’s how it functions. If instead of that, the labor movement had been filled with strategically incapable losers who said “MAN THE WHIGS DON’T FUCKING REPRESENT ME” and then fucked off to do something else, we’d still be working weekends and getting our arms pulled off in the factories.
This is why people think the whole “protest voter” thing is a psyop: Because it makes so little sense as a strategy for producing positive change. As a way of making sure things get ten times worse and the worst people in the world get to profit, though, it’s a fucking fantastic strategy.
umm, that’s 40 years ago you’re talking about, and it was Harry Truman who came after, so I say it was sinking gradually since then. In any case voting for warmongers is kind of an approval to them, people have every right to distinguish themselves from warmongers.
I don’t really care about labor rights that much in this discussion, but I strongly doubt that you can achieve any by “voting blue, no matter who”, you’re not really voting here imo, you’re just showing the lobbyists that you’re accepting anything blue they offer. The example of FDR only shows that your party has been infiltrated and needs a purge of some kind, instead of unconditional support.
Yeah, pretty much. Because things got good and people stopped fighting.
This whole model where “the assholes in power are doing corrupt things and don’t look out for the people” is this shocking surprise, and leads to us needing to disengage from the whole system even more, is wrong. Fight for what you need. That is the way.
Good thing I never said that. What I was saying is that “Vote no, no matter who” is a bunch of garbage probably equally unproductive to this elaborate strawman of “vote blue no matter who.”
Yeah, pretty much. If we could start with Schumer and Pelosi that would be great.
Tell me, does “the leftest end of the party refuses to vote anymore” leads to the party moving left? Or right? I can’t remember. Is that a good way to purge the centrists, by withdrawing the leftist input? Maybe there is some kind of history from 1968 - 1992 that I can look to. Or maybe the history of the Democrats since 1992?
If you meant that you wanted people in US to vote for someone like Bernie Sanders then I’m not you’re opponent. I only discard the idea of “vote Biden to prevent Trump” which evolved to “vote Kamala Harris to prevent Trump” even when both are clearly not standing for you really, but “just do it cuz they’re the candidates of the party”.
I’m pretty sure the meme is blaming those who didn’t vote blue in the last American elections, “resulting in Trump winning”.
I’m not discarding the idea of practicing the democratic procedure in your country all together or participating in votes, but rather only the idea of “vote for the lesser of two evils”, as it has only proved to sink the boat so far. I’m arguing against extreme loyalty for the party, for life.
Then you are… well, I won’t say you’re my “enemy” exactly. But I think you’re making incredibly stupid decisions, and then being dishonest (“just do it cuz they’re the candidates of the party” when the logic was literally pretty much the opposite of that).
If the house is on fire, then leaving the house is urgent. Preventing Trump was urgent. Saying it’s not worth leaving the house because you don’t like the weather outside is ridiculous, and framing this past election like preventing Trump was not urgent, even now with the benefit of hindsight, shows some really remarkably bad strategic ability, and I don’t think I really want to listen to your political wisdom as to how to look at things or how we can get out of this mess now.
My point bringing up 1968 and 1992 was that refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils, thus opening the door for a much much greater evil to reset the bar downwards and also motivating the Democrats to move to the right since the left isn’t voting for them anyway, is precisely and exactly what has been sinking the boat.
Citation needed. I saw them actually resisting, unlike the liberals who paved the way for Trump’s facism. But they claimed it was OK this time, but cause it was the “good guys” doing it.
I’m mostly talking about the people on Lemmy. This kind of stuff is what I’m talking about:
https://lemmy.world/search?q=kamala&type=All&listingType=All&creatorId=5466182&page=1&sort=TopAll
https://lemmy.world/search?q=biden&type=All&listingType=All&creatorId=5466182&page=1&sort=TopAll
Compare to:
https://lemmy.world/search?q=mamdani&type=All&listingType=All&creatorId=5466182&page=1&sort=TopAll
https://lemmy.world/search?q=no+kings&type=All&listingType=All&creatorId=5466182&page=1&sort=New
When it’s time to not vote for Democrats, they’re all yelling and super vigorous, activists with all kinds of passion. When a pro-Palestine, pro-worker candidate comes along, they start shitting on him. When it’s time to get in the streets, it’s fucking crickets.
That’s why I don’t like them. Surely that makes sense. If I saw them actually “resisting” or at least encouraging other people to resist, I’d be a lot less contemptuous of them.