- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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But there’s no additional money available for infrastructure and social services within Germany. Something something Bundeshaushalt excuse and EU federal debt limit.
Whew, watch out, I mentioned the same kind of sentiment on a post about the billions of dollars that America is sending for the war, and got lectured on “that’s not how government budgeting works and you know it blah blah blah”
It’s neat how it’s so easy for capitalist governments to authorize money for killing people, but when it comes to social spending there isn’t even a penny to spare.
The German finance minister has been gleeful up on his high horse preventing additional spending on important things Germans need, but approved a €100B special fund for the military in 2022 outside of the bounds of the federal budget.
I think it’s also worth mentioning that most of the US “aid” is actually loans. Even their food aid comes with real strong strings attached. The US owns Ukraine at this point. Although I’d don’t know how German aid spending or military spending in support of Israel in general is structured.
Investing in making people die over-seas, rather than the wellbeing of their own population that essentially pays their wage…
Yea, anyone would find that blatantly suspicious. Their goals are perfectly clear.But people have drank so much USA Koolaid that they cant possibly imagine a country running any differently.
It’s not just Koolaid.
The relative domestic prosperity of the US is built upon that very overseas death and exploitation.
The people of the imperial core have some material interest in keeping that system of oppression going, even if they don’t realize it or think about it in those terms.
And those people are the most dangerous kinds of sociopaths.
I don’t think I can agree with that.
Of course the capitalist class generally know what they’re doing, but that’s not who I was talking about.
I meant that everyday working people have a material interest in more or less keeping the status quo. I’m not sure that you can define this group as sociopaths.
If they’re unwilling to stop an aggressor at their doorstep for a fraction of their budget, having more infrastructure or social services won’t help them much
If it’s such a small fraction, why is it so impossible to use it for other means?
Name one country with a bigger military budget
Russia?
Famous for how well they treat their citizens
This doesn’t appear to be anything official, right? not certain how much a coalition publicly agreeing to this translates to actual funding for Ukraine. Would also be nice to see how this funding stacks vs the US, and vs other EU country contributions.
It’s officially agreed upon by all coalition members, but the finalizing of 2024’s budget where they officially introduce that change is only scheduled for next week.
Also just the original 4 billion € for next year is more than all other countries with the exception of US and UK have spend this whole war…
That’s just military aid though. In all, the EU has almost spent €85 billion to support Ukrainians.
For comparison, Russia is expected to have tripled their national military budget by 80 to €120 billion per year, or an increase of around 4% GDP. If the EU spends €60 billion /year on aid, that would mean around 0,4% of their GDP.
Aka Russia has a GDP comparable to Italy
Bad ass for Germany and Ukraine. hope things go well.thanks for the context
This is the best summary I could come up with:
If approved by parliament, where Scholz’s parties hold a majority, the boost would lift Germany’s defence spending to 2.1% of its gross domestic product target, beyond the 2% pledged by all North Atlantic Treaty Organization members, the source added.
Lawmakers from Scholz’s Social Democrats, the Free Democrats and the Green party agreed on the increase in negotiations over the proposed 2024 federal budget ahead of a formal meeting of the budget committee of the Bundestag - or lower house of parliament - on Thursday, Nov. 16, the source said.
A spokesperson for Germany’s Ministry of Defence said the Bundestag committee has not finished negotiations and declined to comment further.
Defence minister Boris Pistorius, interviewed by broadcaster ARD, referred to the planned doubling of military aid to Ukraine.
“It is a strong signal to Ukraine that we will not leave them in the lurch,” he said, adding the move, if agreed, would mean the annual budget allocation would be enough to last the whole year.
Germany’s Bild am Sonntag newspaper had also said the committee is due to approve the additional 4 billion euros.
The original article contains 340 words, the summary contains 183 words. Saved 46%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Is this just a kind of inflation/recession write off for the EU and USA at this point? oh, our economy is not doing so great, we are short by X% of development from project, let’s just write that off as ‘aids’ to Ukraine/Israel
ITT: plenty of vatniks sowing doubt with further supporting Ukraine.
I do wish there was some honest reporting from at least one of the sides though.
Trolls and vatniks have been telling to the people it’s “getting cold” since last year to dissuade more support for Ukraine. Well, a lot more will lose than just heating for homes by tolerating Putin.
Germany continuing their longstanding tradition of funding Nazi collaborators to kill Russians.
I want whatever this clown is smoking lol
sure, it’s not like this was extensively documented in western media or anything
- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955
- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329
- https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2021-05-04/ty-article/.premium/ukrainian-official-changes-tune-on-unacceptable-march-honoring-ss-unit/0000017f-e0e2-d7b2-a77f-e3e7ee990000 (https://archive.ph/ckwv4)
- https://www.ft.com/content/7191ec30-9677-423d-873c-e72b64725c2d
- https://gordonhahn.com/2015/05/02/ukraines-neo-fascist-right-sector-claims-responsibility-again-for-2-may-2014-terrorist-pogrom/
- http://www.errc.org/news/anti-roma-pogroms-in-ukraine-on-c14-and-tolerating-terror
- https://ingaza.wordpress.com/2022/08/10/what-ive-seen-of-ukraines-war-crimes-against-civilians-in-the-donbass-over-the-years/
- https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
- https://www.npr.org/2023/01/31/1152743054/human-rights-watch-ukraine-landmines
All of this justifies Russia attacking a sovereign country, alright. With most of the equipment and uniforms bearing Z, the modern swastika. In mission to provide living room and freedom to true russian people. By committing genocide.
Also, land mines. Ukraine accused of using land mines. Projections give us 700 years to remove mines in Ukraine. 700. Years. Placed by a country that did not sign the Ottawa Treaty.
Now. Tell me about them projections. Cannot wait.
Then call me names.
And then a troll.
Or do we do whataboutism again (see the links comment, adding for clarity) and then change subjects?
Which part of the script are we rehearsing?
First of all, Ukraine lost its sovereignty back in 2014 in a western sponsored right wing coup that overthrew the legitimate and democratically elected government of the country.
I also love how you just keep pushing this false narrative about the war when Stoltenberg already let the cat out of the bag. The war happened because of NATO expansion plain and simple. This is something the west continued to deny for over a year, but now it’s right there in black and white:
Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
Also, if you want to see what an actual genocide looks like, then look no further than to what Israel is doing with Biden’s blessing. That’s a real genocide where Israel massacred more civilians in three weeks than died in war in Ukraine in nearly two years.
Maybe get yourself a better script.
What is Russia business in Ukraine’s overthrowing their government?
How is talking Israel not changing subjects?
Try asking more intelligent questions so you don’t make a clown of yourself in public next time.
I see this Stoltenberg quote confidently thrown out so often in defence of Russia’s invasion. Do you think Russia has some kind of actual right to invade countries if NATO doesn’t do what it says? Would you be defending Germany if it sent a similar letter to the CSTO and then invaded Serbia?
Of course it does. It’s a superpower with a right to protect its citizens from the threats of the world’s most aggressive military alliance, making threats to install nukes etc. Do you think the US would behave differently?
Hot take but if the USA invaded Mexico because the CSTO refused to stop accepting members then I would, in fact, think that that was bad actually
No world power will tolerate an aggressive military alliance on its borders. If you don’t understand this basic fact, then what else is there to say to you. NATO has been invading and destroyed countries for decades since USSR fell. The principle of invading countries because might makes right is already established by NATO.
It’s pretty funny that you bring up Serbia, given that what Russia is doing in Ukraine is directly modelled on what NATO did to Yugoslavia. NATO recognized independence of the separatist regions and then had them invite NATO to assist. This is precisely the formula Russia followed with DPR and LPR. Russia is just following the rules based world order here buddy.
To back your point, Russia’s concern over Ukraine is the same as India showing concern over Pakistan’s government. Yahya Khan came to power in Pakistan after a coup, backed by western powers to counter the influence of Soviet Union. Yahya Khan is known as the “butcher of Bengal”. Killed about three million people in East Bengal (Pakistan then, Bangladesh now) - men, mostly of Hindu faith were culled, while women were raped. This led to a growing refugee crisis in West Bengal (India). The US threatened to nuke India. Guess whose intervention stopped this genocide? The Soviet Union pressurized the US to back off, because of which India was able to take part in the Bengali revolution to liberate Bangladesh. This event is also how the slur “p*ki” came into existence - targeting brown people, especially Pakistani.
If it’s a free for all, Germany and its friends can do what they want and send Ukraine as many weapons as they like, can’t they? Why have you got a problem with it? Under your logic they’re just doing what world powers do
Removed by mod
it’s pretty clear you’ll ignore whatever doesn’t fit with the fantasies you live in though
Can you please explain to the people in the back what these fantasies are?
your original comment that I replied to already explains them perfectly well
And the bravado is gone…
Sad
yuppie
The US is treating the EU like a doner kebab to feed Ukraine
Double it and give it to the next person.
EDIT: It was a joke about the famous stupid YouTube videos… Not saying they shouldn’t give it to Ukraïne…
Next person?
Ignore the other reply. I was just making a stupid joke with the title about doubling it.
As that is the famous phrase from dumb YouTube videos were they donate money to people (if is even real) or after doing something and they offer then to keep it or double it and give it to the next person.
Germany is on a steady decline, decisions like this increase the pace.
Why?
Because nobody needs to support their partners! The only thing that counts is OUR country and OUR freedom !!!
/s
The only thing that counts is OUR country and OUR freedom !!!
This position is natural, I wouldn’t criticize people for that. What people fail to understand is that “OUR” country and “THEIR” country exist on the same globe. “OUR” country will feel consequences too if Russia doesn’t lose.
“OUR” country will feel consequences too if Russian doesn’t lose
Thats the point. Beimg nationalist is not completly wrong, because you still live in your country.
But I a country just looks for itself, it doesnt blend out all the other countries and the problem they have. Our world is interconnected like in no time before, wd cant just shut our eyes and try to be happy.
And as germany is the biggest economy in Europe, we should be more supportive than economically smaller countries
Ah yes, supporting partners the way US supported Germany by blowing up their gas pipeline.
Was it the US? I though it was zelensky…
Does anybody actually buy that story?
Elaborate please
Germany is now running deficits to support a war that’s already been decided. Ukraine is a corrupt country where many weapons given to it find their way onto the international black market. The standard of living in Germany is getting worse. Using deficit spending on a non-productive good like weapons to a foreign country that is corrupt will accelerate Germany’s decline.
So you think its better to dont support our partners, and let autocrats take what they want, bc we have bad money management?
The standard of living is declining everywhere on the world. Germany is still havimg it really good. We are just nagging, but we have really much. in my opinion we have to help other countries which have it bad.
If you’re going to stop Russia from invading Ukraine why aren’t you putting German troops in Ukraine? You’re not helping your partner your killing Ukranians to weaken America’s enemy. Tell me what the difference between Israel and Russia is and what they’re doing to their smaller neighbours is. And then tell me why Germany condemns one atrocity but supports the other. It’s not about supporting a partner and I think you’re being naive or disingeneous if you think so.
We dont send troops, because it would be an intervemtion of foreign forces, in this situation its NATO forces. I think the rest needs no explanation.
Germany condemns Israels human rights violation PUBLICLY from ministers to chancellors nobody says its good.
And we send support to palestine too so I dont know what you are talking.
Germany doesnt give Israel tanks and weapons. Please enlighten my naiveness and tell me how germany supports one and not the other…
