Would you consider a man in a park playing with little girls a predator? No you wouldn’t, because that can be both a predator and a sweet grampa (and many other things). A man having a relationship (you are saying hitting on, you don’t know) with a young girl is not necessarily a predator. Mind you, it can be! But the age alone doesn’t tell us that. It’s not nuance questioning, is accepting that human experience is different and people are different and yes, it’s possible that a very young person has a very good relationship with someone much older. If I saw two people in public, it’s not the first thing I would think, but that’s due to my prejudices.

Also I don’t care what two people say on a forum. The comment got 4 upvotes, so even the temperature check here shows me that it’s clear I am not defending predators (which I would find abhorrent). Nor you nor anybody else has elaborated on why a middle-aged person in a relationship with a 20yo is necessarily (emphasis on necessarily) a predator. So I take it for what it is: a cultural item which is based on mostly prejudices and traditions. Mind you, I have it as well. This whole disgust is the first thing that came to my mind too. I just realized that it’s based on nothing more than my gut feeling.

Edit: since I grew tired of having to receive sever accusations by people who refuse to engage in good faith in a discussion, potentially questioning their own moral value, I will give make you a favor and block you as well. Cheers.

What a useful point! Thanks for the comment

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I think they “can”. Provided certain conditions (like the relative maturity and reciprocal consent and attraction etc.) are met, there is nothing inherently bad.

Not sure why you ask a question if you don’t care to get a reply…

You could simply make your argument. If you can’t support your point, than maybe it’s not that clear after all. It seems you assume everything you believe is self-evident.

Anyway, I respect your wish to be out, so won’t engage further.

I don’t know, that’s my point. I guess I would consider what is generally the law, plus if I had to pass jusgement I would want to know more on a case-by-case basis.

I suppose there are cases where 20-25 is already a huge age gap that I would consider creepy. People are wildly different.

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I disagree with your safe bet then.

I also don’t think child predators end up marrying and making children with their victims (or at least is uncommon?). I am very aware of the relationship between religious people and abuses. This has very little in common with it: it is right there in the open, it is a long-lasting relationship, she was not a child (although much younger), we don’t have any pattern (as usual comes up in cases of abuse) etc.

Your argument is literally about the age gap, rephrasing it as “middle-aged and minor” doesn’t mean much (also at 18 she was not a minor and you don’t know when they actually started a relationship, do you?). Also I didn’t say anything about what she looked (strawman), I just said that at 18 you are not a child anymore, let alone at 22. You get the right to vote and to do what you want in many countries, in many places at 19-20 people already have kids and are married (especially in rural areas). These are mostly social convention that have to do with how society function and is organized.

Again, I find this depiction of people at 18 as children an unnecessary infantilization of the population.

Also mine are not scare quotes, are a way to signify that I am using that term without really meaning it, which I think is what quotes are sometimes meant to be used for.

The fact is, the “limit” above which the age gap becomes creepy/predatory is arbitrary, it’s cultural, it’s based on moral stances but it’s not in any case objective, and personal situations can anyway vary (I.e. some people at 18 are very mature, other are very immature). Where do you put the limit? Tom Haverford rule (half the age + 2)?

You can of course have your own morale, but there is nothing objective. I cannot personally relate to that either, but I also acknowledge that this is purely cultural and therefore relative and possibly temporary. I find the arguments that by definition label it as wrong or worse grooming to be moralistic and - to some extent - bigoted. Even if directed towards a person that probably is a bigot himself etc.

There are almost 30 different countries in Europe. They also have quite different cultures and policies around immigration (for example).

Who are you talking about, specifically?

To me it sounds like a conjecture based on prejudices. Also, I think that women are not necessarily dolls completely subjects to the will of men simply because they are older (and therefore capable of who knows what long-lasting convincing), but humans with autonomy, capable of taking their own decisions.

I don’t see what his shitty political views have to do with the lack of information we have to judge the specific dynamics of their relationship.

The only argument here really is a moralistic one (big age gap), which is something I would expect from conversatives, not from progressive people. Instead I see moralism and infantilization under the pretence of protecting “children”.

OK, but it’s a big IF, it’s as much as a conjecture as assuming she is in for the money. We don’t know when they actually started having a relationship, we don’t know if any “grooming” happened, nor to what extent, we don’t know when they decided to get married.

Also, they seem to have met when she was 18. That’s already not a child (which means it can hardly be called grooming). Plus, grooming is not like a lifetime spell, it’s something that victims blames themselves for usually, but not something that they never realize.

To me it seems they simply have a very big age difference.

Someone else in the thread has posted an article. They married in 2011, she completed highschool in 2007. She must have been 21-22 when she married. Not really a child (but also nothing tells us she is in for the money, obviously!).

Edit:

https://prospect.org/politics/how-republican-rep-john-rose-found-his-wife/ The article above reports she is from 1989, apparently.

Now this guy could be the worst person on Earth, but we really don’t know that based on one photo from what is clearly a staged photoshoot (not even a candid shot).

I understand wanting to make a point, but this whole thread to be honest looks exactly to me like the flipside of people salivating against drag shows or stuff like that: hard stances based on no information. One picture and it’s already certain he is a groomer, she is not happy etc.? Yes, there is a big age difference, but this doesn’t mean anything per se.

I am honestly very surprised to see people acting with such confidence over something they objectively know so little about.

Public financing of the press, newspapers stopping being garbage and selling subscriptions like they have always done, pay per article (cents), donations. Just some ideas of economically viable alternatives. There are good niche newspapers which survive with such models, it’s not like I am making it up.

I would say the opposite: advertising alone is not sustainable for the press because it creates wrong incentives (grab attention, clicks). This is why 90% of newspapers have the same garbage, short, generic articles. This is why you get rage baits, fake news etc. too, to some extent. So yes, you get websites online, but you get no information…

Also in Italy, but I think once the data protection agencies will get on it, it will be forbidden. It will take some time, but there is no way that’s a legitimate use of consent.

The GDPR says that if you use consent as the legal basis for processing data, such consent must be free. This means that there cannot be consequences if you give or not give the consent. If there are, then the consent is not free anymore. Paying money for a service is absolutely legal, obviously, what probably is not legal is extracting your consent by offering you a discount (which is the flipside of “pay to avoid tracking”).

I just wanted to specify a bit, not that you said anything incorrect.

Usually when hotels close past a certain time you can use a secondary entrance with your keys/card or at most call. Most hotels have a desk open 24h so this doesn’t even apply.

Also, I really don’t think Italians are generally rude. People are friendly, but also loud and warm, which often can be misunderstood. Assholes exist, obviously.

Good, let me give back the favour with all the violence threats and wishes. At least you are the only one in bad faith :)

Oh no, a comment in another context again interpreted from your US-centric view!

I mean, you think I care about your respect? A person who makes 0 effort in understanding other points of views (quite similar, ironically) and straight up insults and wishes death to others? Lol you are thinking way too much of yourself.

I also stand by every word of that comment, as the concept of white privilege doesn’t apply everywhere (Italy has a completely different history and racial dynamic compared to US).

Again, you have a colonialist mindset, and you are completely incapable of accepting that the US cultural lens is not the only lens that exists and that won’t apply to many. So tell whatever stories you want to yourself, shout as much as you can, but I am just explaining my views and providing cultural context (which has nothing to do with excusing or defending homophobia). You refuse to accept this context because you think that your perspective is universal. I will repeat it, colonialist mindset.