Thanks for this. I have a German friend that can’t talk about this without whining about how it’s upsetting and oh the jewish people in Germany are reminded of the holocaust and they’re afraid now and Hamas aren’t perfect victims and nobody is allowed to protest because protests are antisemitic so we just have to let Israel flatten Palestine and continue their apartheid with our tax dollars. And oh man I don’t really know anything about it but I still disagree with you and my perfect english is suddenly not good enough to explain my non position because everyone just wants to be right.
I stopped talking to that German friend, but I’d like to know how to get past that brick wall if we ever do talk again.
The other one is looking at the situation from an Israeli perspective. Iran is the most open anti Israel country right now. A lot of other countries in the region, do not like Iran either and are somewhat willing to work together with Israel. That is Saudi Arabia for example. The issue is that the situation in Palestine is preventing that alliance from forming. So a deal with the Palestinians gives Israel greater security in the region as well. If done right that would only mean the northern border to Lebanon and Syria is challenged.
you believe a random internet comment more than your “friend”?
you’re ridiculing him for not being able to explain his position in his non-native language and you’re accusing him of “just wants to be right”
I honestly think it’s better if you don’t talk to him again.
Anyways, there’s a rise in antisemitic crimes, there’s a lot of antisemitic rethoric during these protests and they’re covertly used to spread anti-semitic, pro-iranian talking-points. Your friend is right.
I’ll be sure to let you know when I start taking advice from lemmy on my personal relationships.
He was using “everyone just wants to be right” as an excuse to shut down. His very weak rationalizations to not take a stance yet reject any advocacy for the humanity of palestinians were very transparent and I found it both disgusting and insulting. He would claim he didn’t know enough, to not know “what does Hamas even want”, but told me he’d have to see my sources on everything I tried to explain to him. Especially when I told him about Israel’s lies of sexual violence that occurred October 7th (which was his main talking point, “you don’t rape people”. Well, there’s not a shred of evidence that they did) and then threatened to mute our chat for sending these sources without reading or viewing them because they were “too long” or cited a tweet at some point, and I assume he did mute me but idk cause that’s where things ended.
I understand that antisemitism is rising. That is happening everywhere. You also have the AFD on the rise (which he denied). That can hardly be blamed on Palestinian activists. If anything, Israel is to blame for manufacturing the situation. Fascists co-opting the movement because they want to see both sides destroy each other is hardly any reason to continue funding Israel as they wage a genocidal war, nor is it one to shut down any democratic process on the matter. They are poisoning the discourse and you are playing right into it.
And no, I refuse to accept your framing that anything Iran does is automatically bad, antisemitic, or out of proportion to the situation. Israel is no more righteous in this than they are and is actively provoking a regional conflict with weapons that we are providing.
Thanks for this. I have a German friend that can’t talk about this without whining about how it’s upsetting and oh the jewish people in Germany are reminded of the holocaust and they’re afraid now and Hamas aren’t perfect victims and nobody is allowed to protest because protests are antisemitic so we just have to let Israel flatten Palestine and continue their apartheid with our tax dollars. And oh man I don’t really know anything about it but I still disagree with you and my perfect english is suddenly not good enough to explain my non position because everyone just wants to be right.
I stopped talking to that German friend, but I’d like to know how to get past that brick wall if we ever do talk again.
Israels support of Hamas is a pretty good starting point. That one pretty clearly shows, how the Israeli government continues that situation.
The other one is looking at the situation from an Israeli perspective. Iran is the most open anti Israel country right now. A lot of other countries in the region, do not like Iran either and are somewhat willing to work together with Israel. That is Saudi Arabia for example. The issue is that the situation in Palestine is preventing that alliance from forming. So a deal with the Palestinians gives Israel greater security in the region as well. If done right that would only mean the northern border to Lebanon and Syria is challenged.
Well I tried the first thing and he didn’t believe me.
That’s an interesting perspective though, I’ll have to think on that. Thanks!
so…
you believe a random internet comment more than your “friend”?
you’re ridiculing him for not being able to explain his position in his non-native language and you’re accusing him of “just wants to be right”
I honestly think it’s better if you don’t talk to him again.
Anyways, there’s a rise in antisemitic crimes, there’s a lot of antisemitic rethoric during these protests and they’re covertly used to spread anti-semitic, pro-iranian talking-points. Your friend is right.
I recommend these two: https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/117974-000-A/das-system-hamas/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84gsvAKzxbg&pp=ygULc3RyZyBmIGlyYW4%3D
provided you’re actually interested in the topic and dont “just wants to be right”
I’ll be sure to let you know when I start taking advice from lemmy on my personal relationships.
He was using “everyone just wants to be right” as an excuse to shut down. His very weak rationalizations to not take a stance yet reject any advocacy for the humanity of palestinians were very transparent and I found it both disgusting and insulting. He would claim he didn’t know enough, to not know “what does Hamas even want”, but told me he’d have to see my sources on everything I tried to explain to him. Especially when I told him about Israel’s lies of sexual violence that occurred October 7th (which was his main talking point, “you don’t rape people”. Well, there’s not a shred of evidence that they did) and then threatened to mute our chat for sending these sources without reading or viewing them because they were “too long” or cited a tweet at some point, and I assume he did mute me but idk cause that’s where things ended.
I understand that antisemitism is rising. That is happening everywhere. You also have the AFD on the rise (which he denied). That can hardly be blamed on Palestinian activists. If anything, Israel is to blame for manufacturing the situation. Fascists co-opting the movement because they want to see both sides destroy each other is hardly any reason to continue funding Israel as they wage a genocidal war, nor is it one to shut down any democratic process on the matter. They are poisoning the discourse and you are playing right into it.
And no, I refuse to accept your framing that anything Iran does is automatically bad, antisemitic, or out of proportion to the situation. Israel is no more righteous in this than they are and is actively provoking a regional conflict with weapons that we are providing.