• queermunist@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      “I want to attend your school just like my grandfather” = This is fine

      “I want to attend your school because my grandfather wasn’t allowed to” = This is not

      Think about that for a second.

        • queermunist@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Absolutely.

          And until that’s the case, there’s a clear double standard that benefits white people.

          • TheCraiggers@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            A pure merit-based approach also overwhelming benefits white people though, because they have a lot more generational income to help their kids get ahead in life.

            • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Hook me up with that generational wealth. The ATM doesn’t accept race as a condition for providing money.

                • jscummy@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  It really should be income/circumstance based instead of race based. Sure they’re correlated, but there’s plenty of disadvantage white people and plenty of wealthy minorities

            • queermunist@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              This is a bad take.

              Racial admissions existed to counter the other injustice - an imperfect solution to the inherent racism of legacy admissions.

              Now that affirmative action has ended, the injustice of legacy admissions has been made even worse. Racism is now the law.

              And it will never end.

              • SpacemanZ@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Racism is now the law.

                So we need laws to not be racist? This is an insanely pessimistic take that nothing has improved the issue of racism in the US.

                • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  It’s not pessimistic - it’s simply an honest understanding of how white supremacism is fundamental to the US. To be clear, things like affirmative action didn’t really improve things all that much - it was a band-aid on a traumatic amputation - but it was at least something.

                  • SpacemanZ@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    It was a good band-aid for the time because racism was a massive problem back then, though, I sincerely doubt it’s needed today. I’m not saying racism isn’t a problem today, but the idea that universities must be regulated for them to accept non-white applications ignores the strides we’ve taken as a society. We don’t need the band-aid anymore.

            • Limes@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              You are correct here, why would we not celebrate this just because there are more issues that need corrected?

    • RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      But asking them who their father is is fine?

      If people gave a shit about fairness they’d care about legacy admission more than affirmative action.

      • The Picard Maneuver@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        No, that’s not fine either and should also be outlawed due to a history of systemic racism giving some people an advantage over others.

        It should be 100% merit based, plain and simple. It’s the only fair way.

        • RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Funny how we addressed the tool that helped black kids first, rather than the one that hurt them.

          Maybe it’s because this is being pushed by bad people, that you seem to agree with under some fantasy of “100% merit based” reality.

          Systemic biases exist, AA compensated for them banking AA is basically pretending this nation isn’t racist AF.

        • kofe@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          That’s not how it’s going to play out in reality, unfortunately. I truly wish it were.

      • derf82@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Neither is ok. But only one likely violates the constitution. Congress could make legacy admissions illegal if they wanted to.

        • Donjuanme@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Congress could’ve made affirmative action illegal if they wanted to?

          But only one side works as the majority’s dog whistle.

          • derf82@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Yes. Even noted red state California (/s) voted in a referendum to make the practice illegal.

        • the_accidental_mind@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I really appreciate this take, because it reminded me that I can always call my congressman (or at least their office) and voice my opinion to ears that might be able to do something about it.

        • RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You can never change who your parents are, that’s some real mental gymnastics to justify how hereditary acceptance criteria is good actually, but using race to identify those underservered by k-12 education, lacking in family connections, not having knowledge of college specific tricks to getting accepted & generally having less resources available to do the extra-ciricular activity to get in, and compensate for that bias is bad.

          Affirmative action is only silly if you don’t accept that systemic racism exists.

          • escaped_cruzader@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Affirmative action is only silly if you don’t accept that systemic racism exists.

            Just because AA isn’t “silly” doesn’t mean it’s a correct policy

            Most of AA “positives” can be achieved with income-based criteria, more seats in courses and the unachievable better base education and home environment

            • RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Fine the mental gymnastics is to justify why hereditary admission criteria are more acceptable to you not “good”

              Yes the white kid does.

              • The racial biases of whoever runs the admission system
              • The racial biases of teachers at the school
              • The white kid is still more likely to benefit from hereditary admission and insider information on how to do well in admission tests/letter.

              To pretend a white kid in a predominantly black school doesn’t have an advantage in “colorblind” admissions is to deny the existence of systemic racism.

                • RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Without AA, racism in admissions is illegal.

                  No positive measure to counteract systemic biases are illegal.

                  Hereditary admissions when 80% of previous students were not black, is pretty explicitly racist and still very much legal

                  All the implicit systemic biases in the admission system are very much legal

                  The only thing you can’t do is ensure black kids get admitted.

                  If you have a system and you know its giving you biases results you can compensate for the bias, without understanding every single component bias, that’s what AA was, banning it, is sticking your head in the sand and going back to faux/real Naïvity about how system racism works.

                  We might as well start asking “why do black people prefer renting?”, because as a nation we are commited to pretending to not understand that there are systemic reasons for things.

                  • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    when 80% of previous students were not black, is pretty explicitly racist and still very much legal

                    Black people only make up 12.6% of the population. If 80% of previous students aren’t black, then black students are heavily over-represented in the student body.

              • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                The racial biases of whoever runs the admission system

                Can be biased both for or against the student based on who the specific administrators are.

                The racial biases of teachers at the school

                Can be biased both for or against the student based on who the specific teachers are.

                • RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Sure buddy, and if you’re too stupid to get into any college you might believe both those have the same chance of happen 🤣

            • Iteria@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              Yes. If a white person applies to an HBCU they can get minority scholarships. There was a big story about it a few years ago where a white person wrote about their experience being a minority and turns out being a minority sucks no matter who the majority is.

    • plz1@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Honestly, asking anyone for race on any application for anything shouldn’t be a thing. With the exception of medical things specific to race, it’s completely unnecessary. Unless I’m missing something glaring, other than perpetuating systematic disenfranchisement.

      • JesusTheCarpenter@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        While I agree that requiring people to reveal their ethnicity should be a no-no for anything other than medical, asking for people to volunteer this information makes sense.

        In UK in many places giving ethnicity is optional and the results are used to monitor how different groups aka “races” are doing. This then can be used for research.

      • AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It’s a way for the college admissions to combat the systemic racism already present in USA society. It treats a symptom of a larger issue. A college cannot help with all the disadvantages minority students face throughout thier primary education but they can account for that in admissions.