I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but threads or comments about Lemmy or the Fediverse get downvoted a lot on Reddit and trolls who claim that it’s “dogshit” and “not going anywhere” get systematically upvoted.

Some of those trolls get then exposed when you ask them what Lemmy instance they tried and one of them with whom I had a surreal exchange answered with something like “yeah ofc I used Lemmy, this is the instance: join-lemmy.org” 🤦‍♂️

It’s frustrating that these trolls keep contributing to the big lie that “Lemmy is not ready yet” and that there’s “no viable alternative to Reddit”.

This and the overwhelming number of comments being “against the mod protests” just prompts me to question whether there isn’t some brigading being organized straight from the Reddit HQ.

  • Zebov@lemmy.world
    53·
    2 years ago

    Probably bots. Reddit has been using them for some time, but recently got caught using chat gpt or something similar to argue against the blackouts.

  • Wander@yiffit.net
    37·
    2 years ago

    Unfortunately there’s probably a large amount of users who simply don’t care.

    But that’s okay. What matters is content creators, not content consumers. Anyone with half a gram of decency and self integrity will have realized that they need to take steps to move away from Reddit.

    • YolkBrushWork402@kbin.social
      6·
      2 years ago

      When the content creators leave and go to Lemmy/Kbin, eventually those content consumers will leave and go with them too. Will be a bonus for the Fediverse

      • Wander@yiffit.net
        5·
        2 years ago

        We need to ask Louis Rossmann to join the fediverse. He’s been super critical with Reddit on YouTube.

        • impulse@lemmy.world
          5·
          2 years ago

          I’m sure he’s already aware and will make an account if he wants to.

          There’s no point in shoving the Fediverse in someone’s face.

    • Houdini@kbin.social
      1·
      2 years ago

      Exactly. Let the milquetoast mouth-breathers stay behind. With sufficient brain-drain, Reddit will eventually look like Quora.

  • Extra_Cucumber_2979@lemmy.world
    321·
    2 years ago

    Once - unfortunately - Apollo app will be down, in less than 2 weeks, I’m pretty sure Lemmy will surge and they will come complaining here 😅

    • jpenczek@lemmy.world
      5·
      2 years ago

      My biggest issue with Lemmy is lack of userbase… which is fixable by signing up for Lemmy.

      Figured best case scenario other people make the switch, worst case I’ll forget this service even exists.

      Also does anyone know how to enable dark mode, or if there is a dark mode?

      • Aurix@lemmy.world
        3·
        2 years ago

        There is a lot of activity to spend many hours here. Discover more communities here. There is a dark mode, go to the settings page. You will find it in a drop down menu.

      • ImDonaldDunn@lemmy.world
        1·
        2 years ago

        Once there are good mobile apps in the app stores, I think we’ll start seeing a surge in adoption. The other big piece is moderation tools. If Lemmy can manage to build better mod tools than Reddit, it would be a big draw for power mods

      • Mintyytea@kbin.social
        1·
        2 years ago

        yeah that’s what I’m struggling with too, like it’d be great if we could encourage people to try these, but at the same time I don’t want to give them a bad first impression to turn them off forever if they can not stand it’s still a baby project (understandable). I honestly don’t think it’s that hard to start using these fediverse products though, and I feel like the posts saying “lemmy will never take off”, “kbin is too hard to use” only gave me barriers to start using it. And then when I did start, I was like oh this is great, everyone’s talking, it’s a close community

        • moon_matter@kbin.social
          1·
          2 years ago

          The biggest issue is how easily people are taken “off-site” when linking to another instance, leaving them essentially logged out and unable to subscribe or otherwise participate. Users should be presented an option to be redirected to the relative view within their instance or go external. With the “external” link in much smaller font below the preferred option. Kind of like how Steam or Discord has a pop-up asking if you “trust this site” whenever you leave their spaces.

  • ono@lemmy.ca
    11·
    2 years ago

    Some subreddits are also using automod to remove comments linking to Lemmy.

    I hope some journalists put a spotlight on the deceptive tactics Reddit is using.

    • GreatWhiteBuffalo41@slrpnk.net
      1·
      2 years ago

      I literally only use it for my sub these days because it has a fair amount of members. I do all my scrolling and reading here now. Login there to check the mod queue and I’m done until there’s an alert.

  • angrytoadnoises@lemmygrad.ml
    9·
    2 years ago

    Lemmy is pretty dense to a newcomer, especially one who is used to the centralized web. But that’s okay - we don’t need Lemmy to replace Reddit. Just like Mastodon, this ‘temporary exodus’ is only beneficial for this platform.

    Even when the drama ‘blows over’ and Reddit is back to its usual status, we will have gained a huge amount of new users interested in a decentralized web. As long as there are enough users for Lemmy, I think that’s okay.

    • Khold@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 years ago

      Initially I was kinda lost, but now that Im getting the hang of the instances etc, its pretty cool

      • Sage the Lawyer@lemmy.world
        1·
        2 years ago

        And people forget that before we used reddit for years, we had to get used to how subreddits worked and how to curate them to make our feeds more personalized. That wasn’t any harder than figuring out instances here. The more you use a system, the easier navigating it becomes.

  • XanXic@lemmy.world
    8·
    2 years ago

    It’s sort of an asshole problem. All the cool people are walking away from Reddit, or at the very least trying to support the blackout/boycott. So all that’s left are the chronically online people, apathetic lurkers, and assholes who purposefully don’t care. The assholes are now seeming more vocal because all the logical voices are burned out or gone. Provided the good contributors/commenters stay away. Eventually lurkers won’t enjoy a ton of pissy comments on everything and look for more interesting discussion to peruse. Then the assholes will just be being assholes to each other, then be like man this place is full of assholes, and go look for a healthier community to be an asshole too because they don’t want people who fight back like they do lol.

    • FaceDeer@kbin.social
      2·
      2 years ago

      Also, people have a natural tendency to form “teams.” Even if they don’t particularly like what Reddit’s admins have been doing they may identify as part of “team Reddit” and so see other teams as the enemy.

      • GunnarRunnar@kbin.social
        3·
        2 years ago

        Besides, the way to convert isn’t by arguing. You do it by providing a good platform (not there yet), good content (not there yet) and good community (kinda there?).

        • FaceDeer@kbin.social
          1·
          2 years ago

          I’d say we’re at “okay platform” level, and “okay content if you’re into the specific things we’ve got okay content for at this point.”

          It’s a gradual process. The Fediverse is slowly getting better, and Reddit is slowly getting worse, and eventually someday they’ll pass each other in the wilderness.

        • Kichae@kbin.social
          1·
          2 years ago

          Yup.

          Don’t get dragged down I to the mud. They’re kicking up shit because they feel like they’re losing something. Like the thing they like is under attack and in danger. Getting into fights with them not only validates their feelings, it makes everyone else see it as a “both sides” thing.

      • HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social
        1·
        2 years ago

        There was a legendary episode in social psychology called the Robbers Cave experiment. It had been set up in the bewildered aftermath of World War II, with the intent of investigating the causes and remedies of conflicts between groups. The scientists had set up a summer camp for 22 boys from 22 different schools, selecting them to all be from stable middle-class families. The first phase of the experiment had been intended to investigate what it took to start a conflict between groups. The 22 boys had been divided into two groups of 11 -

        • and this had been quite sufficient.
        • C_Spinoff@kbin.social
          1·
          2 years ago

          I’ve just read up on that experiment on Wikipedia and the conclusion you present seems to be shortcoming to tell nicely. Reassuring to me was that the two groups occasionally ganged up on the experimenters, being aware they’re being manipulated. Thanks for mentioning this, yet for me it seems to be way more to it than '2 groups will fight inevitably ’

          • HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social
            1·
            2 years ago

            Sorry, it was a pithy quote. It’s not meant to fully encapsulate the results of the study, it just seemed relevant and likely to bring some pleasure to people.

            Obviously, people are more complicated than can be fully captured in a single statement, but there is some truth there; look at how hostile people can get over sports teams, which are never going to affect people’s access to food, shelter, medical care, etc, and which are still treated with life of death seriousness by their adherents, who largely differ in which location they happen to originate.

    • sotolf@kbin.social
      1·
      2 years ago

      yup exactly that, I’m getting more and more used to, and happy with this place, I just still kind of have a hope to migrate over one community, but I don’t think they are willing, and it’s hard to find people that are interested :p

    • Dav@kbin.social
      1·
      2 years ago

      Amen, if Reddit ever died it would probably survive living rent free in Lemmy users’ heads.

      • HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social
        1·
        2 years ago

        Eh, Digg is nothing more than a historical note to most who left in the exodus, but there was a time when it made up a large % of the posts on Reddit. People will move on, but for now the wounds are still fresh.

  • SterlingVapor@lemmy.world
    7·
    2 years ago

    Here’s the thing - we’ve been raised from birth to think “people don’t make things, companies do”.

    Most people have never used software that isn’t company branded, they’ve never sat in a chair made by someone they know, they’ve never pulled food out of the ground. Almost all jobs set someone up doing a service with a supply chain behind them or doing one small step of something bigger.

    It’s learned helplessness. They don’t have the concept of how they could do things outside of the hierarchy - solid chance they’ve tried, and since their skills are hyper-specialized and rely on big, expensive tools, they found they had a lot of gaps.

    Anything you do outside of a company is a hobby to most people. And even then, people organize into sports leagues and buy fancy toys instead of just meeting up in the park with a ball… Do you really need to play by professional rulesets when you’re just trying to exercise?

    This time around, I didn’t bother to explain why the decentralization is so important to my friends and family - even the technical ones are almost afraid of the idea of it.

    Instead, I told them about the ways Reddit has picked up the harmful strategy that Facebook used, and that makes mobile gaming so addicting yet so unfulfilling: show them less of the content they want to change the reward schedule, training you to use the app longer for a smaller dopamine hit. Show you content that will make you feel angry, driving up engagement. And most importantly, always wave the promise of another dopamine hit.

    The app is eggregious - it sprinkles in stuff from top communities I left a long time ago because they suck, it gives you suggestions for new communities and presents them like interaction from other users, and it sends you notifications to tempt you back in all the time.

    And this is just the beginning, it’s going to get a lot worse With all the other social networks eyeing their own strategies to squeeze their users, it’s going to suck across the board, and good luck trying to build relationships outside these platforms

    I think it’s important to remember we’re animals, and we’re not just trainable, we’re the most trainable by a large margin. The best of us have just a handful of moments where we see beyond our instincts and conditioning, and decide to train ourselves

    This project is important, because it can give us back communities small enough to get to know each other, while providing a larger forum for ideas, and with a design that can shrug off attempts to control it.

    It’s going to fragment. Sections of it will break off into echo chambers, admins will sell out their users, and parts will offer a curated walked garden hosted. But it can survive all that because of one simple truth - unless one person captures the majority of the network, they’re going to have to cut off the best part of the network. Social media can be profitable without sucking, but to rake in profits it has to suck - and even then, we can start up servers for friends and family, and rebuild the network organically

    I’m working for an app streamlined enough I can send it to my mom and have her sign up without getting scared off, and I think I’ve got a solid idea of how to improve discovery of communities without becoming distributed rather than decentralized. Other people are building their own visions of what this can become, and a lot of people are writing impressive code (Lemmy has no business scaling as well as it has), and the beauty of it is that it all competes while adding to the whole.

    I’ve been at it for 30 hours now, but I can’t shake the feeling that me getting this out this out in the next few days is going to matter if this is going to become what I hope instead of another shard of Reddit.

    But every time I step away to take a breather, I end up back on here and see a glimpse of what this could be

    The only way to change the world is to release something self-perpetuating and self-reinforcing and intrinsically positive, and hope it grows

  • Warped@kbin.social
    6·
    2 years ago

    Reddit is known for it’s use of bots. Bots helped Reddit grow in its early days. I’m not surprised that bots are being used now. As more people leave, I’m sure more bots will get used to give the impression of an active community. Just lie they did in those early days.

  • NRVulture@kbin.social
    6·
    2 years ago

    Of course there’s no viable alternatives to Reddit. Why would someone create another dumpster fire?

    • IMongoose@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 years ago

      The thing is, there are pretty much two distinctly separate reddits, new and old. New reddit is flashy with live videos and more media than text, and old is very text based. And then if you are using an app like RIF, you don’t even have chat. For me, old reddit is very much like browser lemmy and going from RIF to Jerboa was very seemless. It’s almost the same thing. But if someone actually likes new reddit and their app(I saw a graph that like 80% of users use it) lemmy is not going to cut it.

      But imo lemmy is in a great spot right now. It could definitely be better but it’s growing a lot. I’m liking it at least.

  • chiisana@lemmy.chiisana.net
    5·
    2 years ago

    I think there’s truth to some of the “not ready” claims… and this is coming from someone who really tried to get into Lemmy, ended up creating their own instance (as demonstrated by my user handle).

    A few issues I think Lemmy dev team really need to address ASAP, from least technical (thus affecting most users) to more technical (this affecting less users) are:

    1. UX/Discoverability – Finding communities are a huge pain in the backend right now, and with multiple communities on different instances serving same purpose (i.e.: !reddit@lemmy.ml and !reddit@lemmy.world). Sure, Reddit had same issues (the example I’ve heard is /r/meirl and /r/me_irl), but Reddit offered solution (multi on old reddit, community+community on new reddit). There must be a way to streamline it with meta-communities or lists on Lemmy such that the contents can be viewed in a unified fashion. I recommended !community@ (note the lack of domain) to streamline all of user’s subscriptions with same name on different instances as an example; and perhaps we can use #list$user@lemmy.domain for users’s maintained lists to unify !homelab@lemmy.ml, !datahoarder@lemmy.ml, !homelab@lemmy.world, etc.).

    2. Trigger happy defederation hubs – a certain instance has unceremoniously de-federated a couple of other larger instances. This is not the way, but here we are, with users on those instances not able to access the broader Fediverse, and vice versa. Until discoverability gets taken care of, it will be challenging for users to find a good home – this leads to next point:

    3. Authentication – The Fediverse at large needs to separate authentication out from instances. Instances may provide their own authentication, fine, but there needs to be better way to authenticate against something else other than an entire new instance of Lemmy. The ActivityPub protocol has clear definitions on what is an actor, and users shouldn’t need to deploy a Lemmy instance to identify themselves, separately from a Mastadon instance to identify themselves, separately from a… etc. This is because frankly…

    4. Deployment of Lemmy is utter garbage. The official documentation’s getting started guide gets users setup with an instance where the UI container cannot talk to public, but the lemmy backend can? Why bother shipping an nginx container if the backend will just expose itself to the whole wide net? Also, let’s just pretend postgres container isn’t open to the whole world with a basic password… Trying to get it up and running with Traefik was a pain, just do a quick Google and see how many people have asked and gave up, as well as how many different ways people have tried to go at it (something something xkcd 927; I’ve contributed to a new one of my own per linked post on top!), and the dev basically just straight up going ‘we don’t support traefik’… also, each approach is not without problems…

    5. Federation is a bitch. I am pretty proud of the way I’ve used override to not edit original docker compose, and locked my setup down a little. But, I’m not ready to have the instance open to the whole wide web without CloudFlare in front… but allegedly, Federation doesn’t work with CloudFlare… why? Good luck trying to get to even a popular sub’s scale without getting hit with DDOS when someone disagrees with something someone else posted.

    There’s many more problems, and I genuinely want Lemmy to work. But, Lemmy is, lack of better words, “not yet ready” for prime time. It is thrown into the spotlight with Mastadon (which feels a bit more mature, at least from reading the docs) because of bad leadership at mega techs… It will take a lot of work for Lemmy to evolve and mature, before it can be “ready” to really absorb the mass of Redditors leaving Reddit.

    • pingveno@lemmy.mlEnglish
      1·
      2 years ago

      Regarding #2, I think not defederating might be an easier sell if users had the ability to block instances. Right not it’s just users and communities. Hate lemmygrad? You can block its communities one by one, but it’s kind of a pain. So instances only have the option of a full block.

        • pingveno@lemmy.mlEnglish
          1·
          2 years ago

          Lemmygrad is thoroughly obnoxious. Full stop. Also, you clearly have no idea what western chauvinism is if you’re calling me one.

          Edit: To clarify, I don’t want Lemmygrad being defederated. It breaks up the Fediverse for little reason. But I do want users to be given the option to block instances on either the community or user level. Would I say the same thing about a right wing instance with a history of bigotry and hate? No, that’s another matter that goes beyond mere discomfort.

    • bankimu@lemm.ee
      1·
      2 years ago
      1. That certain community is beehaw.org by any chance? They also ask you to write pretty much an essay to join, and didn’t accept mine.