Looks like my account was banned/restricted for the above interaction, have already sent the mods on world an email asking if they’d be willing to reverse that. Had an episode of psychosis a few months ago where I did say some offensive stuff, (understandably) got a 3 month ban on .lol for that, so could see my account having been flagged.
I uh, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect people to check others profiles to ensure we are correctly pronouning them… when making a throw away comment that is less than 10 words involving a ludicrously common saying. Jerboa does not show users pronouns. I could switch to an app that DOES show the pronouns, do any Lemmings have a recommendation for a free Lemmy mobile app that has that feature?
Edit: Edie chimed in, Jerboa does show pronouns. It’s a formatting issue with mobile vs browser (She has them on individual text lines so they don’t appear on mobile).
Was just going to respond to the user in question to let them know I wasn’t purposefully trying to offend that individual, to discover I’m not able to post or make comments on world now, so figured I’d see what y’alls opinion on the matter is.
You weren’t misgendering; you were meming. Modifying one part of “the man, the myth, the X” to adapt it to the situation is fine and good, but when you start swapping out too much of it (“the X, the myth, the Y” – or worse, “the X, the Y, the Z”) you lose the reference.
Yeah that’s my thought. It’s an expression. I’ve said things like “c’mon man” to people IRL I know to be women, without complaint. If I was using the word “man” in this kind of way and the person I was saying it to asked me not to, I would of course respect their wishes and stop doing it to them, but I’ve not seen it happen before.
But a third person coming in to whinge when the person I was talking to had no complaint? 🙄
(As a side note, with this specific expression I quite like the alternative of “the ma’am…”. That helps it scan exactly the same as the original phrase.)
And other people deliberately use all of the “come on man” and “Hey mate” and “Dude is not gendered” explicitly at trans people, because it lets them get away with misgendering. So trans people, who experience that stuff every day, can be a little sensitive when someone does that, even if they aren’t doing it deliberately.
In this case, not knowing the person, and not having access to their pronouns, the comment was fine. But once you know it’s an issue, repeating it despite knowing it’s an issue is a shitty thing to do.
Doesn’t really matter here. The saying is “the man, the myth, the legend”. If you go changing every part of it you might as well have not said anything at all because it won’t make any sense.
The Ma’am the myth the legend is right there though :D
Agree. Some expressions become so iconic they get genderless. Just like sometimes it’s accept to use “man” and “dude” as a genderless exclamation
I once got a temporary ban on another platform for arguing/suggesting that dude has become genderless.
I know multiple woman that use “dude” that way, but some people are somewhat understandably sensitive on the topic of gender.
it depends a lot on context tbh, usually its fine but you can kinda tell when someone is calling you a dude to be an ass
Regardless of your opinion on whether dude has become genderless or not (I also use dude for my friends of any gender), the word is a gendered term that has become ubiquitous. If someone doesn’t want me to use “dude” referring to them, I won’t. It’s not good to assume, so until I know that someone doesn’t mind, I’m not going to use gendered terms contrary to their gender. I wouldn’t call a man “sis” or “girl” the same way I would women I’m friends with, unless I know that doesn’t make them uncomfortable. I wouldn’t call a woman “bro” or “guy” the same way I would men I’m friends with unless I checked. All of those terms are gender nonspecific for me, but they might make someone who doesn’t have my lived experience uncomfortable.
Exactly this.
I’m probably a bit further to the right than most on the fediverse with this opinion but…
I think, once you have been informed of someone’s pronouns, it’s flat out rude to not use them. I don’t know if it’s a banning issue but that’s for the moderators on your instance to decide or the instance the community is on. Even if you don’t agree with someone’s lifestyle, it’s just polite to address people the way they’d like to be addressed.
But surely there’s a difference between intentional misuse and accidental. I think banning someone for not looking up someone’s pronouns before a public interaction seems like pushing things a bit far here. I certainly am not checking such things. But, then in general when online I will use gender neutral wording because frankly, for online interactions someone’s rarely information that matters for the interaction. I don’t really need to know.
My view is, I think it is almost always clear when someone is being malicious and thus transphobic and when someone makes an honest mistake/did not know better. We, as a whole, really should be differentiating between obviously malicious and non-malicious cases.
Yaa that is similar to my viewpoint, though I am also a cis, white, blonde, blue eyed, tall, male, so my experiences/opinions are coming through the privilege lenses absolutely :| Having to deal with conversations like this all the time with “normies”, can imagine people who are deep into such social circles get tired of dealing with the acting-in-bad faith bullshitters.
Rule #21 of the internet: everyone is a guy
Addition 1: every women is actually a guy
Addition 2: every kid is an 18+ guy
Addition 3: little girls are FBI Agents
What about the dogs on the Internet? I thought everyone was actually a dog.
Yes, but it’s a guy dog.
Usually when I make a mistake while trying to act in good faith, I apologize. Posting about the interaction without apology and flashing names of non-mods involved is not the way to correct your mistake, nor to garner sympathy.
I did apologize to the mod I emailed. Not looking for sympathy, frankly I was more interested from a technical perspective as to why her pronouns aren’t showing on Jerboa, but they were on the browser.
11·21 days agoBrowsers will collapse white space, line breaks are converted to spaces.
Jerboa does not collapse white space, and instead rendered the display name with the line breaks. But, one possible reason is that, the area for usernames/display names can only display 1 line, so all of the pronouns got cut off.
That wasn’t your question though. If a technical jerboa question is what you intended to ask, about 90% of your post didn’t need to be included and the question in the title needed to be very different.
As to your edit, I would not recommend PM’ing the user directly; that may be very unwelcome and further breach rules of that community. Personally, I would have asked the mods for a chance to edit my comment and apologize publicly. But with previous history of your self-described “psychosis”, if I were the mod I would be skeptical of your motivations.
Ya the admin of Blajah made a solid point that I should have anonymized the post, I rarely post/comment, so not super familiar with the etiquette. Definitely will keep that in mind in the future. & hey my person, there are a lot of severe mental disorders other than gender dysphoria that exist out there :|
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If somebody corrects you about gender, just say woops, correct yourself, and move on. It’s an honest mistake, a simple fix, and nobody should be offended. Especially online. If they are still offended, it’s because they want to be.
I think the issue here is that it wasn’t a case of “somebody corrects you about their gender”. It was “a third unrelated person comes in and rudely yells at you that you should have already known not to use a turn of phrase”.
The user’s pronouns were in her username, OP’s client just doesn’t display additional lines.
Especially since in this case it was not even the person that was misgendered that called it out. Maybe the original person doesn’t even care.
I’m not even interested in the username of the person I’m responding to. I tend to ignore it completely unless there’s a comment like “lol, username checks out”.
There are very few times I will bother to check someones profile. They have to either say something so awesome that I want to see more, or have given a take so hot I want to see if they’re trolling or if this is standard behaviour for them.
While it looks like the whole Jerboa/“miscommunication” thing has been sorted out here I want to chime in to say that no, I don’t think that checking profiles for anything is a reasonable expectation.
You are supposed to do deep research on the person you’re commenting to…
I barely even read usernames, plus Voyager App doesn’t show profile bios, so even if I wanted to check their profile I can’t and I’m sure as fuck not using the mobile website to get the information.
Same. Voyager doesn’t show it, I’ll do my best, but I’m not going to feel bad when I miss
That’s why I just stick with they/them, anyone who gets annoyed about me using that isn’t worth the energy, it’s an anonymous message board, I don’t know you, that’s my purse!
Dumbass here gets it!
Remember kids, moron is a genderless word that can be applied to anyone!
That’s not an excuse nor justification for misgendering anyone, neutral pronouns exist, use them.
If you tell me I will use them, I’m not a mind reader, I’m a dumbass with an internet connection.
If you get upset by someone using non gender neutral pronouns in general speech I don’t think you’re old enough to be on the Internet, and if you are we need to raise the age of access.
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Always has been
Just stop using gender specific pronouns at all. Makes things much simpler
This is what I try to do. This has been made slightly more difficult after “they” became a pronoun in its own right. I’ve only had one person get upset by my using “they” before knowing their preferred pronouns though, and when my intent was clarified it was fine. But like damn what other default pronoun exists? I guess this is what getting old feels like, it’s not like Iwant to be a boomer about this.
I use they/them as a default. I’ll catch myself in using them and go “wait, what is this persons pronouns” and check, on platforms like Lemmy that have it, their display name for pronouns, and if there aren’t any, then bio. If neither have any pronouns I’ll use they/them. If there are pronouns I will not use they/them unless listed.
To clarify, I’ve never had anyone online get upset with me using they/them, it’s only been in person, after hearing about my conversation with someone else from that second person. I was just left scratching my head with that one, like at least I was trying right? Ultimately though I’ve never experienced being misgendered, by accident or intentionally, so idk how it feels, idk how it feels after the thousandth time, and so I can’t really be mad about it back you know? I was just more sad that the default globally applicable pronoun wasn’t anymore, even if it usually still is.
i find this very easy on lemmy, in english. i’m usually talking to folks more than about them. if i do want to talk about someone, i’ll check their profile, or default to ‘they’ if data is lacking, but it’s a rare enough thing so as to be little burden.
I’m pretty apathetic to gender in general but I’ve had gender confirming surgery to be NB which I guess technically makes me trans and to be prefectly honest I’ve never felt more judged for it than by the lemmy LGBTQ+ community. The 50y/o southern man that was my nursing supervisor back when I was a new graduate was more respectful of my gender and lived experiences than these people. Honestly the thing they seem to hate most is specifically me expressing apathy for gender; I’ve mentioned that my transness expresses itself by not caring about the whole pronoun thing or needing to have any specific pronouns for myself personally, but that I understand it’s a matter of respect for others and I’ve literally gotten banned for saying that. Like almost exactly that. They’re absolutely hateful bastards for no reason other than that they’re upset and need everybody else to be upset too. I’m lucky I have a handful of supportive people irl because I sure asf wasn’t gonna find it here!
If you don’t mind answering, what sort of surgery did you get for a NB transition?
Removal of gendered aspects without any additions.
Going to dig through your comment history later, im curious to see what has been said o.o reminds me of the greentext of the black guy telling a story at a party of all white people, and he says the N word and a white girl asks him to not say that as it makes her uncomfortable and the black dude mentally is like “??? Are you fr?..”
Telling people not to do something when it makes you uncomfortable, for sure, that’s adulting 101. Hoooowever… Feel that shows how much social interaction that gal has actually had with African Americans outside of a professional setting… not much :|
It probably doesn’t help that I’m incredibly irreverent of pretty much everything. I got really into western esoteric spirituality this past year (its really been helping me with introspection and integrating my personality in ways that neither secular therapy or my fundie upbringing ever quite fully did on their own) but at the same time I refuse to take any religion seriously, especially not my own.
Anyway someone in a related community got upset at me for having my irreverent attitude because I was “culturally appropriating” tarot cards from PoC and like dude. Look up where that shit is from its Northern Italy where my family is from just two generations ago they were fresh off the boat when the War was starting. You’re appropriating tarot from me. And if you want to get into the specific spiritual / divinatory usage that’s even fucking whiter. The closest you’re gonna get to claiming cultural appropriation is if you go all the way back before the tarot to the mummy dust the hermetic order of the golden dawn were probably mixing into the coke they were snorting while making that shit the fuck up based on their judeo-christian / classical mythology crossover fanfiction.
People just wanna be mad about shit and at this point I really don’t have the energy to spend appeasing people who have already decided to be mad at me. Imma just be over here using these cards to let my subconscious tell me which level of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs I fucked up this week.
If any human gets upset about cultural appropriation, they’re not smart enough to continue engaging with. That whole karenesque idea should’ve died when it was about braids in white peoples hair.
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Drag agrees, Lemmy is very cruel to trans people. Drag gets so many people yelling at drag for using drag’s first person neopronouns. So many people insisting drag’s pronouns are third person and making it into an argument.
Drag threw me for a loop the first time drag replied to me. I assumed it was a bit at first because this is the Internet and all, but I looked at drag’s history to see what the story was, since it’s not like anyone gives an introduction before commenting.
Other than the pronouns, Drag’s posts are like anyone else’s. Nothing was trollish, and Drag has explained drag’s pronouns a few times. It’s interesting to see drag’s idea is to create something simpler, but as it is not very English in structure, it sounds very strange at first. I think I’ve gotten the idea now, though I have had to make a few corrections as I type this.
First, I think people should be able to be whoever they want to be, especially online, if they aren’t doing things to be jerks. Drag has not done anyone wrong that I’ve seen. So if Drag asks me to call drag by something, why wouldn’t I? Drag has engaged with me in a friendly way, so I owe drag the same.
Second, I enjoy it as a creative exercise. It keeps my mind engaged while writing what would otherwise be a bland reply. It’s kind of fun to see language experience some flexibility and evolution, and if it honestly makes Drag feel better about drag’s self, I can accommodate that. If you can’t abide that, just move on and let Drag live drag’s life.
Even though most of us are liberal here, it doesn’t mean we’re free of bias or not stuck in our own ways. Even if we don’t get something, it doesn’t hurt us to cooperate with someone that it does make sense to. That’s just my feelings though.
Based and I-also-have-over-a-thousand-US-dollars-of-bad-dragon-pilled.
I supposed I left myself open for something like this! 🤣
Oh I meant you’re based for being chill, and I myself have an unreasonable amount of dragon dildos hahahaha
Ahh, well from what I hear, they make a top quality product, so I’m glad you’re giving yourself the best!
I don’t think it’s necessary to check every profile for potential pitfalls when interacting with them. But honestly, in this case there is an obvious transgender flag in the profile name that should make you at least question your first assumption.
Do trans men have a different flag?
I don’t think there is. The transgender flag is for anyone that is trans. There are transfemme and transmasc specific flags (though they aren’t in Unicode so they can’t be used like I do the trans flag). Do note that transfemme / -masc does not mean transgender woman and man, they describe how one would like to present and/or express themselves.
What percentage of the populace do you think knows what the transgender flag looks like? :|
The online percentage.
well if you didn’t know now you do and can avoid this kind of interaction again if your so worried about it
65% is my guess.
Globally? Dawg… how many countries in Asia and Africa is gay marriage even legal in, let alone some semblance and awareness of transgenderism.
Not globally, but on lemmy. I assumed that’s what you meant.
No.
I never check usernames or comments. It is about the conversation at hand.
I assume sone people are sensitive of pronouns if they have transitioned or altered their pronouns, but simple catch phrases should not get you banned–if it was clearly not harrassment.
I try to be cautious of gendering and use they/them when possible, but also i feel individual people need to realize the world does not revolve around just them as an egocentric bubble, and sometime shit happens and you have to deal with your feelings about it, and either A) ask for what you need, or B) move on. Having mods protect your feelings for a perceived slight does not prepare you for the outside world of actual interaction with humans.
Again, anyone please don’t take this as condoning purposeful harassment, bullying of those not in the boomer view of gender. I grew up as a cismale that did not follow the normal idea of what a boy or man is. I was the artsy, poetry type that had mostly female friends. This caused toxic males to label me gay. Cuz gay to hang out with women, LOL.
On a funny note my as a bearded man standing at the pharmacy counter, my pharmaciat called me “Sir Or Madame” as one phrase. They clearly had just taken a course on inclusivity, or have something in them that made them respond per the exact script corporate presented. There wasn’t even a need to address me with an honorific, they could have just said Next, or I can help you now.
No, if they want to be gendered appropriately, they should have it in their username.
It did. OP’s client doesn’t display it. It’s pure miscommunication.
I do! And they isn’t one of them…
Besides that, I do accept that OP couldn’t see my pronouns, it isn’t their fault that I deliberately tried to fuck with my display name, and that their app then honours the newlines I put in there but truncates it to one line.
Apologies! I couldn’t see any pronouns from the image so defaulted to gender nonspecific they. Edited.
