Prefferring the surety of another four years where they don’t have to think about politics over the chance for fundamental changes in how our political system functions when a large majority of the country aligns against a second Trump administration.
A literal pandemic killed millions of Americans and the status quo between the Democrats and the Ivermectin party barely even twitched.
If you think there is a realistic electoral path out of our bipartisan death spiral, I would love to hear it. I’m just cynical enough not to be surprised that neither complicity in genocide abroad or the mass murders of schoolchildren at home will convince the Democrats to start treating Republicans like a threat.
I get that, I’m asking what you mean by “refuse”. You mean just vote against Republican policies every time, no compromise? Because they’re already almost doing that.
If a Republican attaches an amendment to a bill, then it should never even make it out of committee. If they propose a bill, it should be tabled and forgotten about. If they try to stick a rider on a must-pass omnibus bill, then let it fail. Republicans in congress should be treated with contempt, not respect.
The way out of a death spiral is not directly into oblivion. It fucking sucks that genocide is in the category of really important things that need addressing but it is not in the category of things that can be addressed in this particular election.
The electoral path is not at the ballot box every four years at the presidential level. It’s down the ballot and on the other the years. It’s building political capital for the cause you believe in by showing usefulness to the people seeking or holding power and talking to them about the issues you care about. Volunteer for your local house candidate and talk to people in their campaign about how important it is to you that they don’t support genocide, urge them to vote against arms shipments and denounce settlements. Tell your representative how you want them to vote and get other people to do the same.
Working to get people elected gets them to listen to you, that’s why there’s so much money involved in elections.
The way out of a death spiral is not directly into oblivion.
So we need to change course, that means not doing the same thing we always do.
It fucking sucks that genocide is in the category of really important things that need addressing but it is not in the category of things that can be addressed in this particular election.
I strongly agree. Not only does it fucking suck, the lack of any reasonable choice betrays the entire electoral system as an anti-democratic waste that deserves nothing but our contempt.
The electoral path is not at the ballot box every four years at the presidential level. It’s down the ballot and on the other the years.
I can’t think of a response to this that isn’t condescending. It’s cute that you think we will be allowed to vote our way out of a system that is designed to keep the levers of power out of our hands.
Tell your representative how you want them to vote and get other people to do the same.
The better solution is not to put your fate in their hands in the first place. Don’t build political capital for someone else, build alternative structures of power that can serve the needs of your community.
Okay, so you don’t believe in representational democracy. I’m not surprised that if you can’t be bothered to vote then you can’t be bothered to influence who you get to vote for.
What’s a realistic way to build these alternative structures? How do these alternative structures work such that your local needs are met and the genocide in Palestine gets stopped?
Okay, so you don’t believe in representational democracy.
Nope. Relying on political operatives to faithfully represent our interests is how we got into this mess in the first place.
I’m not surprised that if you can’t be bothered to vote then you can’t be bothered to influence who you get to vote for.
I already voted. I’m just not pretending that we get to have any influence over who we get to vote for.
What’s a realistic way to build these alternative structures?
Follow a historical example like the Black Panthers. If your community has an unmet need, serve it and use it as an opportunity to organize your neighbors.
How do these alternative structures work such that your local needs are met and the genocide in Palestine gets stopped?
Nothing threatens the structure of power more than the existence of organized groups of people who don’t depend on it.
Please explain to me slowly because I have never read a political science book of any kind: how does threatening power structures through personal independence stop the Palestinian genocide?
Even without directly opposing the State, the mere existence of alternative power structures poses an existential threat to it.
For just one small example, having fewer desperate people means there will be fewer volunteers for military service, making recruitment more expensive and sapping the budget available for foreign military aid.
Fewer military volunteers also means fewer people indoctrinated into the military mindset, further reducing support for military adventurism.
For another, organized people who work together to solve common problems are also more likely to recognize the shared humanity of those whom the State has declared to be enemies. It’s hard to sell a genocide to the voters when they understand that they have much more in common with the victims than their own political leaders.
Every time the Dems look left they lose. They go to the center because they lose control (they need all 3 houses to do anything), so they go to the center to find voters. They’ve had control of all 3 houses for, drumroll please, 4 of the last 24 years. Want them to stop going to the center? Them give them victories.
Note how Barqs did not specify which years those were, that’s because the answer would contradict their point. Half of those four years were Obama’s first, after he campaigned to the left on a message of hope and change but before his actual administration revealed him to be just another moderate.
I’m not an accellerationist, and as a transgender furry from a red state I’d hazard a bet that I’ve got more consequences to worry about than you do.
Quit treating treating politics like a team sport. This is not a game, this is a life or death struggle to take the reigns of the American Empire in time to do something about the climate, the genocide, the economy, and everything.
I’ll take you at your word, which is trying, but even if true I prefaced my statement with original. This means you’re part of the plan, and you would have to be. Though you may not identify as accelerationist your existence is spurred on and enunicated by a foreign effort to defeat America by turning it on itself.
The only way you can look at the world right now and say “we’re doing the same thing over and over” is if you choose to ignore unfathomable swaths of nuance in some reductionist attempt to protect your own sense of self-righteousness.
Electorally, I disagree. The Democrats have been triangulating towards the “center” since before I was born while the Republicans keep tacking right. When Trump loses and the post-election, post-failed-coup-part-deux infighting tears the Republican party apart, the Democrats will be the new right-wing.
If you were genuinely invested in the election, you’d be desperately trying to find common ground in the hopes of convincing me to vote for your preferred candidate.
Instead, you’re being both dismissive and disrespectful without even putting in the effort to ensure that the insult hits home, exactly the sort of behavior one would expect from a low-effort troll.
Lucky for you, I’m autistic enough to enjoy feeding the trolls~.
My opinion is that you’re incorrect inside wrong wrapped in no.
But I appreciate you’re hanging in there because I’m pretending you really care about stopping genocide. In the United States you could work for the BIA if you really cared about these things but I don’t know what the options are wherever you are.
If you weren’t paying attention, I’m a transgender furry. I’ve been personally targeted by Nazis long before Trump declared people like me to be enemies of America.
Do you think I am not painfully aware of what is at stake here?
I mean, that or all the angry young/middle age voters could, gasp show up to the primaries and move the party to the direction they’d like to see. Instead, the elderly voters, despite being a much smaller share of the population, outvote the heck out of them.
If folks like you paid attention to politics when it matters, not just when it was trendy, things would be a lot different.
Then again, reading what you’ve written, maybe it’s for the best y’all don’t.
Realistically, this is America we’re talking about. A literal pandemic that killed millions was only worth a 16% bump in the total vote count. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that this country is not and has never been a real democracy, the sooner you’ll be able to stop relying on the electoral system to save the world.
Also, I resent the assertion that I don’t pay attention to politics. I pay too much attention to politics. To the point that I predicted this exact scenario for the 2024 election back in 2015 when the DNC first started openly conspiring against Bernie, months before they ratfucked him out of the primary. I was the only person among my family and friends not to be surprised when Hillary lost in 2016. I knew the incumbent for 2024 would have to drop out to give the VP a chance at winning against Trump literally years before we learned that Biden was going to be that incumbent. I feel like Cassandra, cursed with foreknowledge that none will heed.
Anyways, the problem isn’t “trends” or a lack of interest from the youth, the fundamental issue is that electoral politics is a trap. Do vote in local and national elections, of course, but if voting is all you’re putting your energy into then you’re doing it wrong. And our political media ecosystem is designed to ensure that most people do it wrong by investing literal billions into election campaign coverage.
The real forefront of American politics is the union movement. Now that they’re starting to throw off their old business-friendly management and implementing democratic processes for replacing them, they’re taking position to become the driving force behind the new left. Watch for that over the next few years as the Republican party falls apart from the blowback against Trump’s attempts to steal the election while the Democrats continue triangulating to the right to pick up the “moderate” leftovers and alienating their own left wing.
Harris won the moment Biden dropped out. That’s why the Democrats have already started moving right and touting Republican endorsements, they know they’ve got this election on lock and they’re getting a head-start on signalling another “business-friendly” administration.
Trump’s supporters will throw a tantrum as reality starts to seep in, so expect a significant increase in stochastic terrorism and maybe even a (dis-)organized coup attempt. There will be casualties, but the true believers have been inflating their numbers to maintain the image of a contestable election and will severely overestimate their ability to overthrow the government.
It will take longer than that. Even if the Democrats win by a more-than-healthy margin, the Republicans will be doing everything they can to delay and obstruct the final count.
God, accelerationism is so fucking dumb.
If we just let the fascists win then we’ll be able to usher in a socialist paradise! What’s unclear about that to you? Read a book! /s
I hate and love how this is pretty much exactly accelerationism explained without the childlike naiveté.
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A literal pandemic killed millions of Americans and the status quo between the Democrats and the Ivermectin party barely even twitched.
If you think there is a realistic electoral path out of our bipartisan death spiral, I would love to hear it. I’m just cynical enough not to be surprised that neither complicity in genocide abroad or the mass murders of schoolchildren at home will convince the Democrats to start treating Republicans like a threat.
What exactly does “treating Republicans like a threat” look like to you?
An end to the fillibuster.
Fistfights in Congress.
Omnibus bills failing as Democrats refuse to put Republican policies in place.
Three-letter-agencies start prosecuting churches that give political endorsements.
Y’know, anything other than bending over backwards to try and work with them.
Can you be more specific?
I agree, and Senate Democrats seem to be coming around to it too.
Pointless, though amusing.
Agreed.
Romneycare, immigration, defense budgeting, etc etc etc.
Democrats are the only party still pushing bipartisanship.
I get that, I’m asking what you mean by “refuse”. You mean just vote against Republican policies every time, no compromise? Because they’re already almost doing that.
If a Republican attaches an amendment to a bill, then it should never even make it out of committee. If they propose a bill, it should be tabled and forgotten about. If they try to stick a rider on a must-pass omnibus bill, then let it fail. Republicans in congress should be treated with contempt, not respect.
The way out of a death spiral is not directly into oblivion. It fucking sucks that genocide is in the category of really important things that need addressing but it is not in the category of things that can be addressed in this particular election.
The electoral path is not at the ballot box every four years at the presidential level. It’s down the ballot and on the other the years. It’s building political capital for the cause you believe in by showing usefulness to the people seeking or holding power and talking to them about the issues you care about. Volunteer for your local house candidate and talk to people in their campaign about how important it is to you that they don’t support genocide, urge them to vote against arms shipments and denounce settlements. Tell your representative how you want them to vote and get other people to do the same.
Working to get people elected gets them to listen to you, that’s why there’s so much money involved in elections.
So we need to change course, that means not doing the same thing we always do.
I strongly agree. Not only does it fucking suck, the lack of any reasonable choice betrays the entire electoral system as an anti-democratic waste that deserves nothing but our contempt.
I can’t think of a response to this that isn’t condescending. It’s cute that you think we will be allowed to vote our way out of a system that is designed to keep the levers of power out of our hands.
The better solution is not to put your fate in their hands in the first place. Don’t build political capital for someone else, build alternative structures of power that can serve the needs of your community.
Okay, so you don’t believe in representational democracy. I’m not surprised that if you can’t be bothered to vote then you can’t be bothered to influence who you get to vote for.
What’s a realistic way to build these alternative structures? How do these alternative structures work such that your local needs are met and the genocide in Palestine gets stopped?
Nope. Relying on political operatives to faithfully represent our interests is how we got into this mess in the first place.
I already voted. I’m just not pretending that we get to have any influence over who we get to vote for.
Follow a historical example like the Black Panthers. If your community has an unmet need, serve it and use it as an opportunity to organize your neighbors.
Nothing threatens the structure of power more than the existence of organized groups of people who don’t depend on it.
Please explain to me slowly because I have never read a political science book of any kind: how does threatening power structures through personal independence stop the Palestinian genocide?
Even without directly opposing the State, the mere existence of alternative power structures poses an existential threat to it.
For just one small example, having fewer desperate people means there will be fewer volunteers for military service, making recruitment more expensive and sapping the budget available for foreign military aid.
Fewer military volunteers also means fewer people indoctrinated into the military mindset, further reducing support for military adventurism.
For another, organized people who work together to solve common problems are also more likely to recognize the shared humanity of those whom the State has declared to be enemies. It’s hard to sell a genocide to the voters when they understand that they have much more in common with the victims than their own political leaders.
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You’re a fucking idiot.
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As opposed to what, doing the same thing every election in the hopes that it will somehow turn out differently this time?
Every time the Dems look left they lose. They go to the center because they lose control (they need all 3 houses to do anything), so they go to the center to find voters. They’ve had control of all 3 houses for, drumroll please, 4 of the last 24 years. Want them to stop going to the center? Them give them victories.
I wish more people could understand this. Or even made an effort to.
Note how Barqs did not specify which years those were, that’s because the answer would contradict their point. Half of those four years were Obama’s first, after he campaigned to the left on a message of hope and change but before his actual administration revealed him to be just another moderate.
Obama’s policy positions were quite moderate, people just liked his branding.
As opposed to trying to make things better and avoid more suffering for everyone.
Accelerationists have never lived through what they claim to want because if they did, and lived, they would no longer be accelerationists.
Accelerationists won’t have to live with the consequences because they don’t originate in the US.
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I’m not an accellerationist, and as a transgender furry from a red state I’d hazard a bet that I’ve got more consequences to worry about than you do.
Quit treating treating politics like a team sport. This is not a game, this is a life or death struggle to take the reigns of the American Empire in time to do something about the climate, the genocide, the economy, and everything.
I’ll take you at your word, which is trying, but even if true I prefaced my statement with original. This means you’re part of the plan, and you would have to be. Though you may not identify as accelerationist your existence is spurred on and enunicated by a foreign effort to defeat America by turning it on itself.
Edit: My bad
Again, I’m not an accelerationist. I’m a “Stop doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result”-ist.
And don’t tell me you’ll take me at my word and then immediately do the opposite. It makes me suspect that you are the thing you accuse me of being.
The only way you can look at the world right now and say “we’re doing the same thing over and over” is if you choose to ignore unfathomable swaths of nuance in some reductionist attempt to protect your own sense of self-righteousness.
Electorally, I disagree. The Democrats have been triangulating towards the “center” since before I was born while the Republicans keep tacking right. When Trump loses and the post-election, post-failed-coup-part-deux infighting tears the Republican party apart, the Democrats will be the new right-wing.
You call yourself what ever you like. I’ll refer to you as, useful idiot.
Edit: If I were a foreign actor I’m either very incompetent or am a genius for egging on you doubling down.
I see you have taken the mask off entirely.
If you were genuinely invested in the election, you’d be desperately trying to find common ground in the hopes of convincing me to vote for your preferred candidate.
Instead, you’re being both dismissive and disrespectful without even putting in the effort to ensure that the insult hits home, exactly the sort of behavior one would expect from a low-effort troll.
Lucky for you, I’m autistic enough to enjoy feeding the trolls~.
Doing the same thing you’ve always done isn’t “trying to make things better”, it’s “trying to make things stay the same”.
If you want to avoid suffering, you have to be against genocide.
My opinion is that you’re incorrect inside wrong wrapped in no.
But I appreciate you’re hanging in there because I’m pretending you really care about stopping genocide. In the United States you could work for the BIA if you really cared about these things but I don’t know what the options are wherever you are.
The Bureau of Indian Affairs?
Check your privilege
You’re kidding, right?
If you weren’t paying attention, I’m a transgender furry. I’ve been personally targeted by Nazis long before Trump declared people like me to be enemies of America.
Do you think I am not painfully aware of what is at stake here?
I for one do think that.
Then there’s no convincing you of anything.
Not much of anything you’ve been talking about, no.
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I mean, that or all the angry young/middle age voters could, gasp show up to the primaries and move the party to the direction they’d like to see. Instead, the elderly voters, despite being a much smaller share of the population, outvote the heck out of them.
If folks like you paid attention to politics when it matters, not just when it was trendy, things would be a lot different.
Then again, reading what you’ve written, maybe it’s for the best y’all don’t.
I love the idealism, I lost mine decades ago.
Realistically, this is America we’re talking about. A literal pandemic that killed millions was only worth a 16% bump in the total vote count. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that this country is not and has never been a real democracy, the sooner you’ll be able to stop relying on the electoral system to save the world.
Also, I resent the assertion that I don’t pay attention to politics. I pay too much attention to politics. To the point that I predicted this exact scenario for the 2024 election back in 2015 when the DNC first started openly conspiring against Bernie, months before they ratfucked him out of the primary. I was the only person among my family and friends not to be surprised when Hillary lost in 2016. I knew the incumbent for 2024 would have to drop out to give the VP a chance at winning against Trump literally years before we learned that Biden was going to be that incumbent. I feel like Cassandra, cursed with foreknowledge that none will heed.
Anyways, the problem isn’t “trends” or a lack of interest from the youth, the fundamental issue is that electoral politics is a trap. Do vote in local and national elections, of course, but if voting is all you’re putting your energy into then you’re doing it wrong. And our political media ecosystem is designed to ensure that most people do it wrong by investing literal billions into election campaign coverage.
The real forefront of American politics is the union movement. Now that they’re starting to throw off their old business-friendly management and implementing democratic processes for replacing them, they’re taking position to become the driving force behind the new left. Watch for that over the next few years as the Republican party falls apart from the blowback against Trump’s attempts to steal the election while the Democrats continue triangulating to the right to pick up the “moderate” leftovers and alienating their own left wing.
I have to ask. Who do you think will win this election?
Harris won the moment Biden dropped out. That’s why the Democrats have already started moving right and touting Republican endorsements, they know they’ve got this election on lock and they’re getting a head-start on signalling another “business-friendly” administration.
Trump’s supporters will throw a tantrum as reality starts to seep in, so expect a significant increase in stochastic terrorism and maybe even a (dis-)organized coup attempt. There will be casualties, but the true believers have been inflating their numbers to maintain the image of a contestable election and will severely overestimate their ability to overthrow the government.
Thanks. Hope you’re right. We’ll see in 11 days.
It will take longer than that. Even if the Democrats win by a more-than-healthy margin, the Republicans will be doing everything they can to delay and obstruct the final count.