Now. Why am I wrong for Libre
It’s cause they teach it in school
edit a pdf? Edit your expectations.
I feel seen. The number of times I’ve actually needed to do this is too damn high. Sure, I feel entitled to not have to pay for the privilege, as the task was usually thrust upon me by some bank, HR department, or legal firm. But the number of scummy websites online that will happily play with your doc’s confidential info for free, is too damn high. I can’t imagine anyone with average computer skills navigating this particular turing tarpit unscathed.
I pay for Nitro PDF locally
I (average user) was given a case of sensitive information and told to edit it/update it/reupload it. Using my work device was the expectation…but I had not been granted any paid software to do so.
The IT guy was like “you can use this website” which was almost certainly a violation given the nature of the data. It was maddening because I knew (I also did not use one of those websites).
You can also edit a PDF with LibreOffice Draw
Inkscape is a free vector editor that handles pdf edits relatively well. Always my goto.
* Assuming you’re making minor changes.I’ve used Inkscape for a lot of vector art. Using it to edit a PDF seems… overkill, but it’s probably less likely to screw things up. I’ll give that a shot next time, thanks!
Firefox now allows you to edit PDFs locally, for most use cases it is enough. There is also PDFsam Basic, an open-source tool to divide, merge, extract pages, rotate, etc.
Be Australian. Set language to English: Australian
Write word: color. Does not underline spelling error.
Don’t even mention PowerPoint language.
That’s because you spelled it correctly. What color tire have you got on your SUV
Australian spelling is colour.
If it helps, I thought it was funny. Silly-ass British (Australians are just desert British) spellings. You’d think the group that seems to cut half the letters out of the pronunciation of any given place name wouldn’t also be the group adding fucktons of unnecessary letters to words since they won’t say them anyways.
Then again, French exists.
The extra u’s don’t bother me but spelling check as cheque to distinguish between a bank check and other senses of check is ridiculous. Especially considering a bank check has the same etymological roots as the rest
Counterpoint: it’s 2025 we should have eradicated all traces of that concept from civilized society.
Worcestershire
Guess I hurt some fragile ex imperial feelings
I just want to write Markdown. I just want to write Markdown. I just want to write Markdown. I just want to write Markdown.
The thing I really hate about modern word processors and everyone’s obsession with PDFs is that the vast majority of the time things will never be printed, but everything still focuses on paginated formats. Nobody seems to get this but you can literally send someone a .HTML file that they can just open in their browsers. Even when I tell developers about this they say dumb things like a single file will load slower. Buddy, it’s loading from the disk, it’s not querying shit, it is okay to make it a single HTML file.
But no, fuck you, just pages and PDFs.
The silver lining is that at least Google Docs (I don’t use other editors often) now has a “pageless” mode. But the amount of times I’ve run into weird things like accidentally backspacing the last character of something with special formatting only to undo it, add extra characters temporarily, then backspace in front of it… Fucking hell. Just let me write Markdown. Just let me write Markdown! JUST LET ME WRITE MARKDOWN!
Paginated formats still have advantages even if they are never printed. It just makes referencing stuff so much easier, if you can say “page 451, second headline, third paragraph”.
Nahhhh, you gotta think outside the box. You can tell people section 3, subsection 2, etc. even without pages. I’m addition, check this out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_element#Anchor Click that. See the little but at the end?
#Anchor? We can already use URI fragments to link to specific sections.“But JackbyDev, I’m not linking to a specific section of something in an outline, I need to link to a specific part of long form content, like a novel. I can only do that with pages.”
That’s a good point, but modern browsers have a way to deal with that too. This is where text fragments help: they allow the link author to have full control over what text to link to, without requiring any special markup in the target document. You can use
#:~:text=to link to specific blocks of text.Edit: Lemmy is reformatting that for some reason and makes it not work. Try copying and pasting the below for a working example.https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/URI/Reference/Fragment/Text_fragments#%3A%7E%3Atext=This+is+where+text+fragments+help%3A+they+allow+the+link+author+to+have+full+control+over+what+text+to+link+to%2C+without+requiring+any+special+markup+in+the+target+document.Edit 2: Apparently Lemmy reformats links in preformat snips. Amazing. Maybe slap this into the URL bar
en-US/docs/Web/URI/Reference/Fragment/Text_fragments#:~:text=This%20is%20where%20text%20fragments%20help%3A%20they%20allow%20the%20link%20author%20to%20have%20full%20control%20over%20what%20text%20to%20link%20to%2C%20without%20requiring%20any%20special%20markup%20in%20the%20target%20document.after pastinghttps://developer.mozilla.org/Nothing more frustrating that trying to show people a very cool and useful feature of browsers only for a different tool to just ruin it.I think you just proved my point.
None of that is nearly as simple and accessible to non-techy people as page numbers. A page number would also not have been scrabled by Lemmy.
(I of course do know about link anchors and all that, but it’s just a hassle to use.)
No, that’s a Lemmy bug. If it’s screwing up URLs like that it could affect other URLs too. Not a bug of text fragments. Text fragments are still relatively new. Firefox only began supporting them last year. Annoyingly, to create then in Firefox you still need to go into
about:configor use an extension. But still, the idea that we should favor paginated format just because you can say “page blah” when we have better ways is foolish. Saying “Search for the phrase ‘blah blah blah’” works equally well without text fragments.And yes, it’s annoying that anchor links are too difficult to link to. But again, the idea that we should accept all the baggage of paginated formats just because anchors tend to be done incorrectly is foolish as well.
The point was that text fragments, link fragments and even “search for the phrase X” are things that are brittle and require software support that’s not necessarily a given. Having to enable experimental features of adding extensions are far too much hassle for the average user.
I honestly don’t see what “baggage” paginated formats have. If you don’t like pagination, turn it off in your PDF viewer. That’s much easier to do than to get all software in your tool chain to work correctly with text fragments.
Not a bug of text fragments.
This is a pretty foolish statement. It’s totally immaterial “who” is at fault if the feature doesn’t work. You did not manage to send a working text fragment over Lemmy. Doesn’t matter what in the chain screwed up.
I can tell you the page to turn to via a phone call or even in person. Try sending a text fragment by telling it to someone. Text fragments are a nice little feature but far too technical to adequately replace pagination in all circumstances.
Even easier, for a markdown (text) file, you could just tell someone the line to go to.
If people used markdown instead, then everyone would have nice text editors installed which would make this easy.
Not to mention how much faster searching through a text file is compared to a word doc (eg, you could ctrl+f the headings name and have a result instantly).
If stuff like this was adopted, integrations could be very nice (with easier solutions than saying “go to x page and look for x header”, I could even imagine links being a thing assuming this feature is developed).
Not to mention how much faster searching through a text file is compared to a word doc (eg, you could ctrl+f the headings name and have a result instantly).
Why don’t you just ctrl+f in a word doc/PDF? That’s still possible, but it’s not exactly of much help in many cases. E.g. if the headline you are looking for is the name of a basic concept that appears all over in the document. Page 512 only appears once.
All other forms of indexing are content-dependant. Indexing by page works the same on any page-based document.
You can of course, but I was specifically pointing out how slow word is when doing any search query.
Page 512 or line 10054, more or less the same thing right?
Didn’t think about duplicate header names, in those cases I guess you would need to be given a line number to go to if someone’s sharing a section for you to see.
I don’t use word collaboratively that heavily so maybe people telling you to “see page 512” is common and I can see how saying “go to line 100512” is harder. I’m sure nothing would stop editors from introducing a feature for fake page numbers.
There will always be certain drawbacks though, most may be fixed by editors having nice UX, others maybe not.
A good example for what I mean with the header names is e.g. the datasheet of a microcontroller. For e.g. the Atmega328p, that’s a PDF with a few hundred pages.
If you search for a section explaining a feature, and you CTRL+F for the name of the feature, which is the headline of the corresponding section, you will get matches for the same exact string of characters all over the document: first in the feature list in the beginning of the document, then on the pinout, then in the text of any other feature that references the feature you are looking for, then in the appendices and lastly in the glossary. Somewhere in the middle of these potentially 100s of matches will be the correct one.
After a while of using that document, you will have the most important page numbers memorized.
If it’s a headline, you’ll find it in the index, from where you can jump to the right page.
Yes, if you have pagination.
But how are you going to package it as part of a subscription and make billions off that idea? You need to go back to capitalism school!
Hehe i’ll start a company that charges you 30/month/user for markdown tech tips.
Then i’ll make my own markdown editor that adds proprietary non-standard features to lock you into my ecosystem.
Counterpoint: LaTeX
If LaTeX is being used to produce paginated output for people to view that will exclusively never be printing it then I have a lot of the same gripes. Though any sort of non-WYSIWYG format is more enjoyable in my mind.
I must be the odd one. I find PDFs easy to use, convenient, easy to edit, and manageable. The business world relies quite a bit on PDF. The whole point of PDFs is that they can easily be printed, signed, be fillable forms, or stored as a single file where the size can be adjusted to fit storage requirements. The only issue I have with them is so many editors all want money for the ability to edit them whereas other document formats have software like LibreOffice that are free. I get you’re probably good at markdown, but the rest of the business world that relies on PDFs and can barely handle them or open a web browser. Their brains would melt if they couldn’t simply open or print a single file.
Alternatively, if the business world can already handle PDF, then they can surely handle markdown. They’re already easy to open, and just like a PDF is easy (???) to edit as long as you have the right software, Markdown’s easy to get predictable printing out of even with the right* software. I think the PDFs are probably slightly easier for forms, but that’s about it. Everything else is just a matter of familiarity, and imo, it’s easier to get familiar with Markdown.
*If this somehow doesn’t work out, they could surely make do with a standard print preview.
Are you an accessibility remediator? I feel like they are the ones who like PDFs the most.
No. I simply find them easy to use. Maybe it’s because familiarity, but I see nothing inherently difficult with saving a document as PDF, and making them form-fills with the right software isn’t too hard. When someone is sent a contract or something they tend to be used to looking at what they would see on paper, PDFs tend to be what they’re used to and very basic WYSIWYG, so people don’t have to think too hard about it.
You find PDFs easy to edit? Also, there’s no reason why you can’t make a single HTML file the way you make a single PDF file. It’s not done in the web for organization and optimization reasons, but it’s still possible.
Also, what do you mean about resizable? Open a web browser, adjust the width. Look at the text. Watch as it moves. Do that with a PDF, absolutely not the same. PDFs have a static size.
Form filling with HTML is easy too. https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_forms.asp
Resizable as in file size. PDF quality is easily adjustable when saved.
Obsidian. Great notes app with a ton of features and is free.
Open source too, I think,but could be wrong on that. I usually am. But it’s all in markdown baby! I use it for my dnd world and notes.Love obsidian.
Unless they’ve open-sourced it in the last year or so, Obsidian isn’t open source. That being said, it does have big vibes of open source. Like, there’s more to open source than simply the source code being available — it’s also about the general ethos of openness. When I was using Obsidian, I felt reassured that my notes were my own, and they would still function mostly the same if Obsidian went under. It’s a big part of why I switched to it from Notion
Obsidian is an org-mode/org-roam wannabe
Yeah, but getting into org-mode low key feels like the tinkering equivalent of starting a heroin habit. I say this as someone who basically lives in org-mode nowadays. I am the weird kind of person who relishes the learning curve, and for me, getting to tinker with my tools helps keep me motivated to actually use my note taking systems. I think that people like me are outliers though.
That is to say that I don’t think “wannabe” is the right word, because Obsidian isn’t trying to be org-mode. I’d maybe call it “org-mode lite”, because of how it takes some of those features and repackages them to be more accessible to a wider audience. I don’t think that’s a bad thing though — indeed, Obsidian was my gateway drug to where I am now
Obsidian is nearly perfect. My biggest gripe is the link format it uses, even when using Markdown style, doesn’t use the full relative path to files, just the name of the file. So you can’t click them in say, VS Codium and have them work.
My perfect tool would be something like Obsidian but uses the GitHub Pages approach while not being tied to GitHub. (The GitHub Pages gem fails in a few ways if the repository doesn’t have a GitHub remote.)
I just wish that obsidian would let me self host a server with their software.
What do you mean by this, an obsidian web client that access a local store? They don’t make that. That’s not “their software”. You could set up a vm to remote into, with obsidian installed/running.
Synchronization can be achieved via many other mechanisms also.
You may want to check out Typora.
“Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft”
Might have something to do with Microsoft offering M365 to nearly all universities for dirt cheap or free.
Don’t agree to Microsoft’s terms of service? Guess university isn’t for you.
best thing about microsoft office is word 3.1 providing me with 30 blank discs for storage.
I’m using Libre office at the moment to actually write something more than a few pages, and it’s English dictionary is missing like 50% of the English language.
*its
Give him a break, typing with libreoffice. He didn’t know
Wanna know something fun about Office?
The keyboard shortcuts are localized.YES, REALLY.
If you press Ctrl+S when running in Portuguese, it doesn’t save, it underlines the word instead (Because the word for it is “Sublinhar”).
Whoever is responsible for this decision won’t die, when their time comes they’ll be swallowed alive by the earth and welcomed into the 10th circle of hell, created for them exclusively.
The 11th circle is reserved for he who decided to localize the Excel Formula Functions too.
The excel function thing has had me fucking irate every time I want to use Excel
My fucking god just thinking about it has my blood pressure rising
Like Ok I get why they localize them but my fucking god just make both versions work like what the fuck is wrong with you
Oh i fucking hate this one, at least once a week I hit control S and excel goes "no problem I’ll underline that cell fo you cause obviously that’s the shortcut for ‘sublinhar’ "
But that’s not the worst part.
The worst part is the actual save shortcut in portuguese.
It’s ctrl+b. I can’t think of any portuguese ‘B’ word that would translate to save.
‘Save’ = ‘salvar’.
But we can’t do Ctrl+s BECAUSE THAT SHORTCUT IS ALREADY TAKEN
download?
The commands in Excel are localised too, and if you want to change languages you’d have to install some language pack. And I think that due to admin lockdown policies in Windows, if you have to work on a restricted company machine, you won’t even be able to do that because you don’t have permission to install stuff
Wait till you hear about localized Visual Basic
No fucking way
Yeah, it’s really shitty. In German, Ctrl+F is Bold.
Nah Ctrl+F is “Finden”. Bold (“Fett”) ist Ctrl+Shift+F
Guess I’m confused either way.
I sure am glad I just use English on all my devices despite it not being my native language.
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Well, Ctrl+S is def what I would expect my programme to do for saving. But for Italics I want nothing else but Strg+Umschalt+K. English hegemony can get bent.
I HATE this. Got absolutely shellshocked by this on a work computer recently.
Luckily, you can “just” change your locale! This is a process that took me a whole hour to figure out, required admin access as well as a system reboot. And it didn’t even work properly.
The same day I ran into a quirk regarding the filename field. Fun fact: Word pulls this directly from the OS. This almost makes sense, except if you want to decide whether or not the file ending is displayed (ie .word). Then you need to set this IN YOUR OS?! There is no other way to set this, and it is broken. When you finally figure this out and set it back to not display the file ending, word keeps doing it, seemingly forever. Yes also through reboots. This issue was fixed over 10 years ago, and then promptly reintroduced and never addressed again. Libreoffice just has another field, this took me all of 30 seconds to discover. But then you have to save in odf, because the word format is ass apparently.
I thought my respect for Word had troughed.
Many such wacky cases in Windows. Like where you install your software (“Program Files”) is localized too.
It’s only half localized though, the actual path is still called program files. It just displays the localized name. Which is somehow even worse.
And if you type in the address bar it’ll suggest the localized version and then give you an error because it doesn’t exist. Drives me bananas.
I haven’t used a localized version of Windows so I don’t know for sure, but sources I can find says it’s actually different in different languages: https://www.samlogic.net/articles/program-files-folder-different-languages.htm
So the Japanese version would require
Ctrl+ほ?
I finally realized a couple years ago that I don’t need an office suite or fancy email client anymore and I ripped it all out. No more LibreOffice and no more Thunderbird.
Now all I use is AbiWord and Gnumeric for my simple needs. I am finally liberated!
Yo! AbiWord is rad! Thanks for the recommendation. This always put me off using LibreOffice. It is so bloated with features nobody uses. Or maybe its actually and the design and UX is just horrible.
Whoever stole my MS office, I’ll find you. You have my Word.
I hate you so much.
Have my upvote.
PowerPoints at you, enthusiastically.
You Excel at this
I cannot Access the words to describe this.
Excellent!
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There is LaTex which I would recommend for any kind of longer document.
Oh the hours spent writing math formulas. You feel like a wizard, conjuring beautiful equations with an ancient arcane language
Microsoft has had a monopoly on office software since the 90s. They illegally leveraged this monopoly to try to destroy competition in other areas. Most infamously, they destroyed Netscape to try to kill competition in the early Internet space. That resulted in a trial for illegally abusing their monopoly which they lost. Then George W. Bush was elected president, and somehow Microsoft effectively got off with essentially no punishment. Admittedly though, part of that was that the judge in the case was so outraged at some of the stuff Microsoft pulled (submitting falsified evidence, having Bill Gates lie under oath repeatedly) that he talked about it in public when he shouldn’t, which opened a door for Microsoft to try to weasel out of the loss.
The “evil” in Google’s motto “Don’t be evil” was widely viewed as being Microsoft. Google was an Internet company in an age where Microsoft was on trial for using their power to make everything about the Internet shitty so that they could control it. In the early days of Google, people weren’t even allowed to use Microsoft software, including Windows, without a special dispensation from the higher-ups. Microsoft effectively avoided any kind of punishment for their abuse of their monopoly, but it distracted them and made them cautious, so they weren’t able to crush Google before it could get going. Before anybody chimes in about how Google is evil, first read up in what Microsoft did. Google might be a bit shady, but where Google got its monopoly by spending hundreds of billions to make its search engine the default, Microsoft used tactics to destroy potential competitors and drive them out of business.
If the US (and the world) had effective enforcement of the anti-monopoly laws, Word would actually have to compete on its own merits. But, because it’s a monopoly, Microsoft can just sit back and keep collecting rent.
Microsoft hurt Netscape, but it was AOL that killed it. At the height of the dotcom bubble, Wall street handed AOL more money than they knew what to do with so AOL bought Netscape. Of course they didn’t have any idea what to do with it (they still kept putting IE on the discs they mailed out to people even when they owned Netscape) and it eventually withered away and died.
The people that ran Netscape correctly predicted it would go this way, but it was a ridiculous amount of money AOL was offering. Luckily they made releasing the code as open source as part of the deal.
No, your revisionist history is wrong. By the time AOL acquired it, Microsoft’s damage had already been done. Its stock price had fallen 50% from its peak value.
The reason AOL didn’t know what to do with Netscape is that it was no longer a viable business due to the interference from Microsoft. Up until Microsoft started giving away Internet Explorer for free as part of the OS, the plan for Netscape was to charge for the browser. That was perfectly normal. People charged for every piece of software up until then. But, when they had to compete with Microsoft’s price of free, they had no real business model anymore.
That’s the whole reason that Microsoft was charged with violating antitrust law. They leveraged their operating system monopoly to enter a new business and destroy their main competitor. Even with their falsifying evidence and Bill Gates lying on the stand, it was an open and shut case.
Microsoft did lots of shady shit to leverage their quasi monopoly on PC operating systems. However Microsoft Office was actually better than the competition in many aspects. The main competition for Microsoft Office was IBM’s Smart Suite. Excel left industry leader Lotus 1-2-3 in the dust pretty quickly in the early 1990s. MS Word was also better than market leader WordPerfect. Then in the late 1990s Outlook became leading and is still unmatched by anything else. Softmaker Office is the only office suite that still exists from back then.
WordPerfect was the leading word processing program under DOS. When Windows was released Microsoft screwed with them by not giving them full access to all the Windows APIs (something Microsoft was notorious for). Surprise, surprise, at the same time Microsoft was not giving WordPerfect the API info they needed, they were releasing their own competitive word processor in Word.
But, once WordPerfect got access to the APIs, they produced a word processor that was superior to Word. The only reason that Word took off is that Microsoft aggressively bundled it with everything.
As for Outlook, I’ve never met anybody who actually likes it. The only thing it has going for it is that it’s available by default and it’s the only thing compatible with emails from other Outlook users. There’s a reason its nickname is “outhouse”. Outlook did the same things that Microsoft did with HTML and HTTP: embrace, extend, extinguish. They took de-facto and de-jure email standards and modified them so that only other Outlook users could use the email properly. They made sure that if you tried to use anything other than Outlook with Microsoft Exchange, that it wouldn’t quite work right.
With Microsoft it’s always about taking their monopoly in one area and squeezing another area, driving their competitors away. It’s what they’re now doing with developer tools, like github and visual studio code.
Outlook is unmatched by anything else? What do you mean? Any email client you take is as good in my experience.
There is currently* nothing Microsoft Office does that I can’t happily do in LibreOffice
The only thing I miss is Excel. Nothing even compares. I use other stuff now, but man my spreadsheets used to be beautiful. Lol
Funnily enough for my needs Google Sheets comes the closest to Excel, but for my personal documents I really want to move to one of those fancy pants python based spreadsheets but I just need to wrap my head around some of the syntax specifics
MS Word is significantly worse than WordPerfect. Reveal codes FTW.
Capitalism? Or nice things? Your decision.
You prefer feudalism?
That is literally the only other way to organize things, yes. Absolutely. One can only be capitalist or feudalist. God you’re smart for catching my bullshit there.
Ah, you’re a fan of dictatorships then?
Only feudal ones, as established.
Plenty of nice things in capitalism
In its gut, being digested, sure
Want to work with .docx files written in English from someone who lives in a country whose main language isn’t English? Better enjoy all your English words being marked as mispelt because fuck you.
Or maybe it’s because they were too stupid/lazy to Select All and set the text language to English? Even so, you can do that at any time as well.
The specific files are generated automatically through some process based on a template, so I think they’d need to fix it there. I don’t really deal with them myself, just remember seeing a coworker struggle with one.
$150
Per year, by the way
massgrave.dev that’s all I’m gonna say.
I’d rather use a free alternative than run a script off a random website
Would you prefer their GitHub?
I also use libreoffice but these people are far from a random website.
I think you’d find more agreement stopping at “I’d rather use a free alternative”. I agree with your sentiment. Repacing proprietary tools built by rent-seekers with volunteer/community run projects whose developers hold user freedom and choice in high regard is categorically better for most people.
Corporate requirements, vendor lock-in, and the friction of momentum make that tough for some people though. I’d still ask they give the alternatives a shot, of course, but I can understand why some might still choose the ideologically inferior option.
For those people? Having options like the open source circumvention tools mentioned allows them to continue using what they’ve paid for (and ought to ostensibly own) without being forced to pay extortion money to do so.
I think you got voted down due to your out-of-hand dismissal of that well engineered alternative with an uninformed value judgement.
tl;dr: you’re correct on the first half but too hasty on the second half.
It’s just the command that launches Microsoft’s own official activation mechanism. It’s hosted on GitHub, which Microsoft owns. Not technically legal, but also not some sketchy Internet crack.





















