Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defence zone . . . Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.
For those unfamiliar with the Air Defense Identification Zone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone_(Taiwan)
Not only does it include a lot of water that isn’t part of the Strait, right off of China’s coast, it also includes a portion of Mainland China a few times larger than Taiwan itself.
People like to talk like China is flying jets over Taipei City, but you can fly a plane from one city in Mainland China to another, only passing over land, and be in this zone. Mind you, I don’t think Taiwan having this zone is bad – countries generally should be aware of air traffic nearby – but this is part of a long history of alarmist headlines by western media regarding what is often very uninteresting air traffic in the PRC.
You realize the identification zone is not the same as airspace right?
“Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defence zone on Wednesday”
The article says ADIZ, not airspace.
Is this that stupid shit where their air defense zone covers a huge chunk of mainland China and they freak out every time China flies Chinese planes over China?
It sure is!
If you actually read the article,
Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.
you would find that 10 aircrafts either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait or entered the southwestern part of the ADIZ. Neither of those is “flying over mainland China.”
It’s still international airspace, so it’s a moot point.
It is, but it was clearly done to provoke Taiwan. Calling this a moot point is like saying that laughing at homeless people is fine because it is not illegal.
If you consider China flying planes on its coastline to be unacceptable provocation, I’d love to know what you consider the USA sending ships half way around the world to that same coastline.
China did not just fly planes on its coastline. They crossed the median line, which is an unofficial line that has been dividing the Taiwan Strait for decades. Planes and vessels from China and those from Taiwan would not cross this line to show mutual respect. China is purposely breaking this unwritten convention. See how they usually just barely cross the median line, fly parallel to the line for a bit and head back? Neither are the planes passenger planes, they are fighter jets. This is different from the US sending ships through the Strait. Sending a military ship through the Strait is a provocation to China, but it is much weaker than the direct provocation of the fighter jets crossing the median line.
you realize that the uptick in frequency of these ‘provocations’ only started in response to the pelosi visit? the incident that had a considerable portion of the entire chinese population howling for the cpc to shoot down the plane and engulf the world in nuclear fire? this is the cpc’s way of appeasing its very large and very rabid nationalist constituency (who are very disappointed that they have not died in a nuclear armageddon, btw) and it is a meme on the chinese internet that despite all of its rhetoric, this pathetic level of ‘not touching you’ fuckery is somehow the lowest that the cpc is willing to stoop to when faced with a de jure violation of its sovereignty.
Broke: Don’t shoot down Pelosi because it would spark a war
Woke: Don’t shoot down Pelosi because it means she can go back to America and speed up their decline
I do realize, but is Pelosi visiting Taiwan Taiwan’s “fault”?
Taiwan? I think you mean Chinese Taipei.
No, I meant Taiwan. Chinese Taipei is only used in sports games.
harderlmao you couldn’t come up with a better argument
They crossed the median line
idk dog, the wording in the article leaves some weird wiggle room.
Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had
eithercrossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides,orentered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defense identification zone, or ADIZ.
Ah yes, China provokes other nations militarily, just don’t look at who’s bases surround them. The only one chomping at the bit for war here is the US
There’s only like upwards of 200 US military bases surrounding China but it’s Chinese aggression we must condemn 🤷♀️
It was very aggressive of China to put their country so close to those bases you know
Cool, now Taiwan is “another nation” when it is convenient for you.
The US is who was being referred to, unless you think that it’s Taiwanese military bases littering the world.
why would China provoke itself, that makes no dang sense
Indeed. It only makes sense if Taiwan is a separate country from the PRC.
All these petty actions do is prove that Taiwan is a distinct country.
Not according to most of the world’s governments. lmao
The southwestern quadrant still includes a bit of mainland China and is mostly outside of the Strait, not to mention that all of the Strait is still in the ADIZ.
okay guys , so since this hole federation stuff your Pro Imperial Wrong Takes comes my way , it must be corrected …
this is Taiwans Air Identification Zone
it is a Bullshit leftover that spans so vast over china that it simply can not be not violated ,…
theirby producing the most wonderfull “Permanent - Saturaton - Propaganda” of China Bad Bakround noise for the Imperial core audience in their Echo Chambers .PS: this is where real Journalist go in the west , when they start beeing critical of non approved subjects.
“Good thing propaganda only ever happens to other people”
How can China violate its own airspace?
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ha ha yes
Daily reminder that the Taiwan Province is an inalienable part of the People’s Republic of China:
And that this is recognized by the United Nations ever since 1971 after UNGAR 2758.
Source, page 546: https://web.archive.org/web/20230503050030/https://legal.un.org/unjuridicalyearbook/pdfs/english/volumes/2010.pdf
Video of the votes happening: https://invidious.projectsegfau.lt/watch?v=sfOIEjuXFyU
Reminder that the UN also invaded Korea.
That literally only happened because the USSR and China would not and could not vote on it (respectively) because the UN was insisting that the KMT who only controlled taiwan were the legitimate representatives of china, and the USSR was boycotting the UN votes on principle.
The point isn’t “UN is infallible” the point is “Even anti-communist countries in the UN agreed that PRC is the legitimate government of all of China.”
Yes, the UN is an authority on what most nations once thought, if that’s all that’s being argued for. At one point there was an understanding that Taiwan is to be de facto independent and de jure a part of China. Now China is pushing back on the de facto independence a bit, and the US is pushing back on the de jure union with China a bit.
The UN proper is not an authority on anything other than what clubhouse members publicly agree, and can’t otherwise be used as an argument from authority, which is how this came across.
As a french dude, and given our history, I have no choice but to stand against all imperialisms. Claiming a territory against the will of its people is exactly what imperialism is. France has done that for centuries along with most of the european powers of the time. Imperialism is criminal, it is murderous, and profoundly unjust. It is nothing less than colonisation. Just let people live on their own terms.
Claiming a territory against the will of its people is exactly what imperialism is
In case you’re interested in learning more about imperialism from a Marxist perspective, I’d recommend Lenin’s Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism. You don’t have to agree with it, but I don’t believe you can have a complete understanding of the way Global South countries have been exploited and subjugated in the last century or so without being aware of the arguments made in this book. The fact that so many of the post WW2 anti-colonial liberation movements were ML or MLM should tell you something.
Also, China doesn’t have to claim anything. Elsewhere in this thread people have already pointed out that under International Law Chinese Taipei is already part of China. No country in the world recognizes the ROC or Taiwan as an independent country. To the extent that the populace of the island has a position on this, it’s split between wanting to retain a special status within China or separatism. And let’s be real here, no country in the world is down with separatist movements. Ask the Kurds, or the Basques, or the Catalonians, or the Chechens etc etc. Hell, let Texas try and secede and see what happens. Realistically, only once Capitalism and Nationalism are both dead and forgotten can humanity start to move away from this geopolitical reality.
Thanks, appreciate the reading suggestion!
Also, China doesn’t have to claim anything. Elsewhere in this thread people have already pointed out that under International Law Chinese Taipei is already part of China.
How foreign countries consider Taiwan may very well define reality, it’s also illegitimate. Would you let someone else tell you what you are ? I consider the only valid stance as per the independence of a territory to be what its citizens have democratically decided. I gather from your reply we’re not actually debating this, my bad.
To the extent that the populace of the island has a position on this, it’s split between wanting to retain a special status within China or separatism
Yes, this is my experience as well
Other countries recognition of your government is one of the key parts of having a government be the government of the place and not a band of dudes in charge. International recognition has long been used as a bargining token by most countries. It wouldn’t be used if it wasn’t incredibly valuable. Want to join the un? Be recognized by other un members. Want to be able to sign treaties and deals? Need recognition that you’re a real state.
Yes you’re right
Claiming a territory against the will of its people is exactly what imperialism is.
It is nothing less than colonisation.
You mean like when the KMT fled to Taiwan, brutalized the natives, and colonized it, imposing four decades of martial law?
To be fair, that isn’t the fault of the Fr*nch.
i’m sure we could figure out a way the french are responsible for this with a little time and creativity
In this case it is more the fault of the Dutch.
can we blame the french for the dutch existing? let’s get some people on this
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If you’d like to try being constructive, you can drop the FFS and follow up with reading advice, for instance, or a bit of your own. It doesn’t have to be long winded, it can just be a couple sentences. This is a good habit to make your own, and replace the waving off with.
Ta geule putain you are French! You deserve no more of a civil response lmao suck it up and go find the reading yourself
Thanks for the advice, will read up on this !
Yes you will “read up on” finding the reading yourself
lmao I’ll give you a hint, start with “Settlers” by J. Sakai
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Appreciate it
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The opposition is the people. Do you actually know anyone from Taiwan ?
The opposition is not “the people”. “The people” just want to live peaceful lives without having the US betting their empire on causing WW III in their backyard. In order to properly oppose imperialism, especially as a first worlder, you need to understand the class interests of monopoly capital and how the emergence of finance capital combining with the force and violence of the state is where imperialism comes from. China has never couped a sitting head of state in order to create a banana republic to enslave the populations and resources of another country. There’s valid criticisms to be made but ur shooting yourself in the dick if you’re criticizing without education on it.
Right, I am quite uneducated on China, I’m only speaking from experience discussing with people from Taiwan. I certainly don’t intend to wear a phallus cast
In my experiences talking with most non-right wing Taiwanese people is simply that they want peace and to not be used as a geopolitical pawn for imperialist motives. I think this is a fairly reasonable position and would hope for at least some form of peaceful rapprochement where some amount of autonomy can be established like in the other autonomous regions in China.
The issue is that the current western hegemonic world order helmed by the US is seeking a point of conflict with China to prevent them from effectively disrupting the current status quo which you are probably aware of: imperialism, neocolonialism and unequal exchange. With capitalisms need to continually expand we see again it’s need for war in order to establish new markets. Its probably humanity’s number one priority to prevent the upcoming world crisis and as many emerging wars as possible (especially considering what that would do to climate change). Combatting the propaganda designed to manufacture consent for an upcoming war with China is the most important thing that a leftist can be doing in regards to geopolitics.
With capitalisms need to continually expand we see again it’s need for war in order to establish new markets.
I can understand that. The reliance on war economy is something I learned from Daniel Guérin in “Fascism & capital”.
The issue is that the current western hegemonic world order helmed by the US is seeking a point of conflict with China to prevent them from effectively disrupting the current status quo
Alright
Combatting the propaganda designed to manufacture consent for an upcoming war with China is the most important thing that a leftist can be doing in regards to geopolitics
Fair enough, I understand. Thanks for the breakdown
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lol, that’s an answer worthy of a five year old right here. But it does answer my question fairly transparently.
Lenin undertook his detailed study of Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism in 1916, basing it on the research of an English economist named Hobson. His analysis continues to explain what is happening in the world today as we enter the 21st Century.
Lenin saw capitalism evolving into a higher stage. The key to understanding it was an economic analysis of the transition to monopoly: “…imperialism is the monopoly stage of capitalism.” As Lenin would point out in another article written in 1916 (Imperialism and the Split in Socialism), imperialism was a new development that had been predicted but not yet seen by Marx and Engels.
Lenin provides a careful, 5-point definition of imperialism: “(1) the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life; (2) the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital”, of a financial oligarchy; (3) the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance; (4) the formation of international monopolist capitalist associations which share the world among themselves, and (5) the territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers is completed. Imperialism is capitalism at that stage of development at which the dominance of monopolies and finance capital is established; in which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance; in which the division of the world among the international trusts has begun, in which the division of all territories of the globe among the biggest capitalist powers has been completed.”
the bourgeoisie are increasingly compelled by a falling rate of profit to use their dominance of the state apparatus to open new markets or access to resource extraction
As a french dude…
Opinion rejected
You continue your shit hole’s history of imperialism by dictating what is right and wrong for a colored mans nation to do in a faraway geopolitical situation you are largely uninformed about. And the fucking gall of using the bloody history of your barbaric country’s colonial exploits as a way to give such pontifications some form of authority. Lmao shut the fuck up and sit down you arrogant bastard.
There are ways to say things without being overly agressive. Take a deep breath. Remember, people aren’t their country. I wouldn’t associate you with some warfare your country has committed, because I have no reason to assume you have anything to do with it. All the best,
Remember, people aren’t their country.
As a french dude, and given our history…
Pick one lmfao ofc you aren’t a representative of your entire pissant failed state but the fact remains that your shameful nationality is the only real thing you grounded the validity of your pontifications on. I will be “overly aggressive” towards imperialist troglodytes like yourself and you will do nothing but continue to cry, whine, and seethe because you are an illiterate maggotbrained shit who stands on nothing.
The only people who have the damn right to speak on the issue of imperialism are the victims of your demonic nation and their descendants, not the legacy of the evil bastards who committed such evil crimes against humanity in the first place. Especially since the fucking country you point to is still entangled in a multitude of white supremacist neocolonialist atrocities to this day, utterly ridiculous whataboutery and arrogance but not surprising from a white frenchoid.
“well if the UN is saying it”
~lemmygrad, when its useful
Last I checked liberals are all about respecting rules and international law, so we’re just holding you to your own standards here.
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As an actual Chinese person, my disdain for the KMT runs a bit deeper than that.
Fuck Chiang Kai-Shek from the bottom of my heart. He pleaded for help from the CCP, then betrayed and butchered the communists who were helping him. Just look at the Shanghai massacre. He then purged anyone even vaguely left wing from the Kumingtang.
I never abandoned my ideals, they were always fuck the ROC to begin with. How do you think he lost the civil war in China? He lost popular support because he was a backstabbing vermin. He should be in a deeper layer of hell than even Reagan and Thatcher.
god it was so confusing having a prof explain this whole history while adamantly backing the KMT/ROC. I was a lib at the time so I didn’t know how to process it but even then I was like wait he seems like a fucking asshole wtf is wrong with you.
You Libs clearly have very little conviction to your “rules based order” and drop it the second it becomes a barrier to US hegemony.
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Your mom already gives me plenty of jerk off material.
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Nice try, but pointing out liberals being hypocrites has nothing to do with abandoning our own ideals. What’s being said is that you lot claim that’s how things should work and you don’t follow your own rules.
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can you point to where in this thread you made any claim that can be argued with? all I see is whining about communists.
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Does your mommy chew your food for you too?
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praising good things and criticizing bad ones is abandoning my ideals. I am very smart.
they’re not abandoning their ideals they’re pointing out that liberals only hold to their own convictions when it’s convenient
“respect the rule of international law!” “ummmmmmm but not when they agree on things i don’t like”
‘you libruls’
Just curious, why did you spell it this way?
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Translated:
“I CONSTANTLY SEETHE AT HEX AND GRAD FOR BEING LEFTISTS SO I JUMP AT SHADOWS, EMBARASSING MYSELF IN HOPES OF OWNING THEM!!!”
I’m not obligated to respect laws when the laws don’t respect human rights. Slavery was legal at once point. The holocaust was legal at one point. Was I ever obligated to respect those laws?
The PRC objectively has a better human rights record than the RoC.
Good thing China has a far better human rights record than the west.
It really doesn’t unless you believe the state media that’s allowed to come out of it. Even then, they publicly reject any lgbt type content.
Calling it “vulgar, immoral and unhealthy content”.
Even going so far as to jail a women for 10 years for producing BL content.
There’s really no reason to believe western oligarch owned media over Chinese state media. Of course, western propagandists rely on people such as yourself being already primed to believe the worst possible things about China making their work pretty easy.
The second article is AnimeNewsNetwork and they link to Chinese owned media.
Is Jin Xing just a hallucination on my part?
Good thing you’re doing sober examination and study into life in China without western bias, how it has improved real living conditions for its people, and applying that principle equally across the board
Never, ever have I thought I’d see the words “台灣是中國神聖不可分割的一部分” in English being used unironically.
So…you thought sharing a common language precluded having differing opinions? That’s kinda astonishing, ngl
To be honest I never thought I’d see those words even in Chinese being used unironically either.
You thought no Chinese people supported the One China Policy? Seriously?
I’m sure a lot do. I just don’t expect to see them in my day-to-day life.
Your day-to-day life…on the massive globally interconnected computer network shared by everyone worldwide who has the means to connect to it? You didn’t expect to see an opinion held by well over 1 billion people on that network, ever?
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perhaps that’s you being in a bubble? I don’t hear a lot of chinese opinions on anything because I can’t read the primary sources.
china wouldn’t do sabre rattling if the united states wasn’t the global hegemon doing global hegemony things.
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I think your expectations seem a bit out of line with reality.
Propaganda happend to you it taints your view in dark color …
tell me , what did Assage do that other journalist dont ?
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I’m so glad we federated. Can finally refocus our attention on libs instead of each other
Hexbear has never felt so united
Chapo’s ghost goes marching on
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=jso1YRQnpCI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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This is an obviously misleading article title.
damn this thread is still rockin’ huh
Goddammit, I do NOT want us to be propping up a war in Ukraine and fighting an actual war with China.
Fuck the CCP
Wow, so brave
Go cry more, nationalist
No, you must be mistaken, I do not support the KMT.
Nationalism is when you don’t reflexively post jingoistic slogans against your countries enemies whenever you see them mentioned in any context…
My dude calls people statists but then also cites death tolls spouted by the US State department on Mao’s casualties is a level of mental gymnastics that may finally dethrone the Maga morons.
I’m sure there’s some explanation for how Mao killed 100,000,000 people but somehow the population of China went up and the life expectancy doubled under him. It can’t be because the US stat dept. exaggerated the deaths by an exponent tho.
这个老外真过瘾，哈哈
we need a victims of capitalism death toll that counts people who weren’t born in the total.
For just the British Empire in India, similar excess death accounting leads to a death toll of 1.8 billion (and $45 trillion stolen): https://mronline.org/2019/01/15/britain-robbed-india-of-45-trillion-thence-1-8-billion-indians-died-from-deprivation/
China is fascist now, they can go on calling themselves communist in a vain attempt to have something resembling legitimacy. But any fool knows that when the ruling party is full of billionaires, that’s no communist system.
They Chinese people are a great people and deserve a better government than the fascist regime lead by Winnie Xi Pooh.
Didnt take long for the nafo chud to bust out the racism, did it?
How is it racism to say Chinese people are great people?
It’s just their government sucks. They deserve better.
I’m excited to hear you explain how comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes isn’t racist
Because it’s not saying Chinese people look like Winnie the Pooh. It’s only Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh. Do you understand the distinction between insulting an ethnicity and insulting an individual?
And you must’ve been living under a rock (or behind a firewall in an authoritarian country) if you’ve never heard of Xi being compared to Winnie the Pooh. I hear he’s sensitive about it, and it’s banned to make such statements in China. But since I’m not in China and Xi is a piece of shit, this incentivizes me to insult that shithead in ways that hurts his fragile little ego.
Oh bother!
Xi is Chinese you dipshit, you are comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes. Please, continue.
The Chinese people chose and support their government, knock off the white saviour act.
I know we are a great people. I am Chinese.
You have it wrong. The Communist Party isnt producing billionaires or getting rich through corruption (at least not in the recent decade of anti corruption). Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
China is the only country that actually punishes billionaires for their crimes instead of giving them a slap on the wrist, house arrest or just straight up not punishing them. China executes billionaires when they commit a crime. Liu Han ordered a Mafia hit on a villager who protested one of his illegal real estate expansions, as well as a business rival. He was executed for murder. China is the only country in the world that would sentence someone worth $40 billion, let alone to death, let alone not given a presidential pardon. Jack Ma regularly oversteps and gets punished by the CPC.
The only billionaire the west has executed is Jeff Epstein (for entirely the wrong reasons). China’s executed 14+ in the last decade.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight. The party responsible for improving the lives for 1.4 billion people actually isn’t disliked in China. The Chinese are not without grievances with the government but literally no other political system in the world has matched Chinese progress over the last 70 years. The average Chinese person isn’t unaware of western Liberal democracy, it simply isn’t appealing. A system that’s basically a popularity contest that elects senile old men, cowboy actors and reality TV stars that have no business being statesmen is actually not a good system. Having lifetime appointed judges to interpret the words of long dead slave owners is not a good system. Having a leadership spill and a change of prime minister every year is not a good system. We can improve on freedom of expression, sure, but the Chinese people aren’t sheep who need to be liberated. Neoliberalism is the failure in the world, not the Chinese model.
Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
Yeah that’s how it works in a fascist system. The wealthy join the ruling party and gain connections to other wealthy people so they can all become wealthier.
The existence of billionaires in China indicates that China is not communist. If it were communist the wealth of the billionaires would be seized and redistributed to the people. China is a country where billionaires are legal and labour unions are illegal.
And your obsession with executions is indicative devaluing life. And it’s interesting that you buy into the conspiracy that Epstein was killed to silence him but haven’t considered the possibility that executions happen in China for the same reason.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight.
Then why isn’t there an election? Why aren’t opposition parties allowed in China? If the CCP would easily win an election, why not have them?
It’s because China is fascist. I think you’re confusing fascism with corporatism. They’re not at all the same. in fascism there’s a hierachy and corporations benefit by falling in line with the hierarchy. Winnie Xi Pooh (who shouldn’t even be leader, but pesky rules bout term limits don’t apply to autocrats) is at the top. Questioning his authority gets you executed. The leadership of China is most certainly misogynistic. The propaganda in China is all about century of humiliation kind of things. China is anti-democracy. These are all the properties of a fascist system.
And yeah fascists will lie about being left wing. See “National Socialism”.
Billionaires exist as a necessary evil, they’re not deities like they are to the west like Gates or Bezos, or a pillar of power like Russian oligarchs. China may not be Marxist as it is, but to completely cut away from the rest of the globe would be suicide. Market socialism relies on being a necessary part of the global economy, and China being able to manufacture in it’s current state while being able to raise the conditions of the proletariat makes it either the worst socialist state or the best capitalist state. Neither is worth of the vitriol it has received. If they must exist, better they exist for the benefit of the people rather than own media companies that push right wing agenda.
The fixation with executions comes from the accusation that billionaires are in charge. It they truly were, they wouldn’t be subject to the same laws as the common folk, and yet herr they are. Unlike Russia or the west, they are held accountable for their actions to a higher degree. All else equal, the CPC treats billionaires worse than any other form of government, and that’s not a bad thing.
For your second point re: elections: Why? The US doesn’t even have free elections, an electoral college overrules pupular vote, nor does the UK, the king and house of Lords aren’t subject to democracy. The Soviets had a free election in 91, voted to remain socialist,nand it was hijacked by the west. Allende was democratically elected and the west supported the usurper. An election while liberalism exists is just inviting interference. Taiwan didn’t have elections for 4 decades and were still beloved by liberalss. The house of Saud doesn’t have elections, did 9/11 and is a close US ally.
If the outcome is obvious, why waste time and resources to indulge western sensibilities, as if bourgeoisie democracy is a human norm, when you can skip that step and move on with increasing society? If it just leads to a Chinese Jan 6th, or worse, why would that possibly be on the table? The CPC would win and somehow the losers would obtain US military grade weapons and seize power. And even if there were no interference and the CPC won anyway, guess what? Every paper in the west would claim it was rigged.
Ren Zhengfei, the CEO of Huawei, has had people arrested and thrown into a dungeon. Billionaires here don’t have that level of power.
You keep imagining yourself as some communist revolutionary, but you’re just another useful idiot that’s been fooled by fascist propaganda.
You should know that fascists are liars and will even label themselves as “communist” if it furthers their goals of acquiring power.
After the ruling party of China did the Tiananmen Square massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre) and got away with it, they shifted to being fascist thugs whose only goal was to maintain and expand their power.
If you’re gonna support fascist thugs, at least be honest about who they are. You look really silly otherwise.
Source? Zhengfei couldn’t even keep his own daughter out of prison. Xi has been the one to crack down on billionaires (part of why a lot of my family like him better than Hu) so if it happened ages ago, I don’t remember. Even so, he’s less wealthy than Jack Ma, who is subject to the CPC’s rules, not vice versa.
All I know is the CPC has done more for the working class, lifted more workers out of poverty than any of the government’s that have earned your respect.
If all they wanted to do post 1989 was to maintain and expand power why the fuck haven’t they? Mongolia is right there, the Qing annexed it, the ROC annexed it, but the PRC can’t? Why forgive loans for Africa?
Why exempt Tibetans and Uyghurs and Mongolians from the One Child Policy? What kind of fascism does population control on the Han majority but not the minorities in their country?
If the goal was to acquire power, there are dozens of regimes that have done a better job at seizing absolute power, but instead the CPC open up more? The Juche government of the DPRK has absolute power, why didn’t China cloister itself from the world like pre Deng? Or start proxy wars in foreign countries to push nationalist jingoism?
I support my countrymen, no fascist thugs. If you’ve ever been to China you’d know it’s not some Orwellian nightmare state. Listening to the media’s portrayal of China when they lie or twist the truth on just about anything else is the brain worm talking. China’s fascist like Saddam has WMDs.
Think about where you’ve gotten your conception of China from and question whether or not they’re biased. You’re talking to someone with first hand experience in China.
where do you even get this nonsense from?
They Chinese people are a great people and deserve a better government than the fascist regime lead by Winnie Xi Pooh.
“I am totally not racist, I love the chinese people. I just love endlessly repeating that their leader is a yellow bear! funny, right?”
Idk how to tell you this, but the CPC and the Chinese state have like 90% approval from the Chinese people according to western academic sources beloved by libs.
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also, ew, nafo
NAFO fascist
Damn, you figured out that I’m part of a super secret intelligence agency.
Now I’ll have to go to the safehouse, get plastic surgery to change my appearance, dye my hair, burn off my finger prints, get new passports.
Again! How does this keep happening?
ERROR! Does not compute.
Please submit pictures of your penis to /c/chapotraphouse to proceed.
I’m sorry my camera doesn’t have a panoramic mode.
Can you please for the sake of our understanding, give your definition of the word ‘fascism’?
Authoritarian and anti-democracy, characterized by misogyny, propaganda about past grievances.
China ticks all the boxes. It’s definitely not communist anymore because billionaires exist there.
What a useless definition. It doesn’t even consider the class character of fascism.
Authoritarian is a useless word. It literally could be used to describe any state.
China is actually highly democratic, but that would require expanding your bourgeois ideas about democracy and understanding how their system actually works in practice.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years. I agree it should be abolished, and that is what socialism aspires to do. But the idea that it can be eliminated by flipping a switch is idealist and unrealistic. There is plenty of truth to the critique that patriarchy still exists in China, but the PRC has maybe also done more than any other state to end some of the most oppressive forms of misogyny, for the most number of women, in history.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either. Some past grievances, like the Japanese war crimes in China, are legitimate. Others, like conspiracies about “judeo-bolshevism” are not. The term “propaganda” here is loaded too, like if the US government does its best to bury its history of chattel slavery (like it is doing in florida, for instance), would it be “propaganda about past grievances” to fight back against that? Would you tell the grandchild of a slave in Florida that by spreading information as wide as possible to the people about the crime of slavery it is somehow fascist? it makes no sense
Authoritarian is a useless word.
If you’re living in a place where they will drive over you with a tank if you protest the rulers, you’re living in an authoritarian state. This isn’t exacltly a subtle thing.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years.
I’m not talking about a few weird comments here and there. I’m talking about the ruling class in China raping women and getting away with it because it’s considered ok for the rulers to rape women in their society. Because it’s a fascist society. Communism is supposed to espouse equality between men and women. But China isn’t communist anymore.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either.
“Century of humiliation! We must allow strongman Xi to rule over us for as long he wants to fight back against the westerners trying to humiliate us!”
This is standard fascist propaganda, fear of outsiders, citing past grievances as a reason for needing a strongman ruler.
In reality it’s the CCP is humiliating the Chinese people. It’s a garbage government. The people of China deserve better.
“The people of China deserve better. Good thing they have me to decide for them”
You either made up stuff, or never really addressed my points, so I am going to have to refer you to this insightful guide.
Wow they ran someone over with a tank!? When did that happen? Poor guy!
🚨 ATTENTION 🚨
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ATTENTION
Your account has been flagged for CCP tankie shill-like activity. Please review These Nuts and never forget that Mao killed more people than Stalin and Hitler combined!
Doing Holocaust denial to own the commies.
Your logic is baffling. Hitler killed millions of people in the Holocaust. Mao killed millions more, yet he’s still a folk hero. Where is the disconnect here?
That the only way you can come to the conclusion that Mao “killed more” is if you’re deliberately downplaying how many Hitler killed, aka Holocaust denial.
I may have missed the lesson where numbers aren’t allowed to be bigger than other numbers, so let me rephrase this in a way you might be able to understand. The most conservative estimate of famine deaths during the Great Leap Forward (backward) is greater than the ENTIRE European Jewish population in 1933 by at least six million.
pretending hitler only killed jews is holocaust denial
Famines were extremely common before the CPC came to power. Most Chinese people lived in extreme poverty, and life expectancy was less than 35, with no significant improvement under the KMT. In between Mao coming to power and his death, life expectancy in China nearly doubled. Today, average life expectancy in China has exceeded that of the US, a feat that would’ve been unimaginable back then.
It’s true that Mao made misteps (which the CPC readily admits), but those specific, dramatic events have been disproportionately elevated to obscure the more general trend, which has been drastic improvements in the lives of the people of China.
Of course, in addition to minimizing the frequency and severity of famines in pre-industrial China, your history books likely did not place the same level of blame on the British for the intentional famines which Ireland and India were subjected to, in which Britain did not only refuse to provide aid to their colonial subjects (often on the express basis that it would motivate people to work harder), but also did not cease their plundering - in both cases, food was exported out of the country while the people starved.
the GLF was economic policy made in response to withdrawal of soviet technological and financial aid during the sino-soviet split, one of the primary motivating factors of which being soviet insistence on china essentially allowing the soviets to recolonize the port of dalian to build a naval base from which to deploy its pacific fleet.
on top of being under sanctions from the west, the sino-soviet split further deprived china of markets with which to support its all-important capital intensive industries and so china was forced to resort to agricultural export as a method of making up the shortfall. collectivization was also pursued simultaneously to pool domestic capital for internal consumption, but due to various geographical, technical and political considerations, internal consumption was not sufficiently stimulated to support manufacturing, and so agricultural export became the primary way to finance china’s continued industrialization. most accounts that are not hysterically anti-communist (including liberal darling amartya sen) of the period around the 1958 famine have records of aggregate production being more than sufficient to sustain the overall population, with the primary points of failure being overzealous local governments in highly productive areas, as opposed to popular western conceptions of overbearing central government mandated directives.
all this to say that hitler and the holocaust’s relevance as a point of comparison to mao and the GLF as anything beyond ‘people died when he was in charge’ is laughably superficial and mostly only functions as a thought terminating associative fallacy for juicing your dopamine receptors in order to immunize your brain against more correct opinions.
Source: it came to me in a dream.
I also like how you’re deliberately trying to whitewash Hitler by ignoring all the non-Jewish deaths he was responsible for.
Seriously, you’re trying to argue that Mao “killed” every single person who starved to death in a famine, but Hitler is completely innocent of any of the deaths that occurred in World War 2. It’s a double standard no one would employ unless they were trying to downplay Hitler’s crimes.
Meanwhile in the real world https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331212/
China’s growth in life expectancy between 1950 and 1980 ranks as among the most rapid sustained increases in documented global history.
louder, for everyone in the back.
CHINA’S GROWTH IN LIFE EXPECTANCY BETWEEN 1950 AND 1980 RANKS AS AMONG THE MOST RAPID SUSTAINED INCREASES IN DOCUMENTED GLOBAL HISTORY.
:mao-wave:
Hitler killed millions of people in the Holocaust.
Fascism did this, not Hitler alone. Fascism and Capitalist Imperialism (western as well) started a world war that killed nearly 100 million people in WW2. Mao did not kill anywhere near that much, it’s reactionary nonsense. China experienced the greatest increase in life expectancy in history under Mao
It’s funny how you clowns keep pretending that the only deaths Hitler caused were the ones that specifically happened in the death camps, as if he didn’t literally start WWII. And meanwhile you insist that every single stubbed toe and premature ejaculation that ever happened in a socialist country should be added to the “victims of communism” death toll.
The double standard is baffling.
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lmao just casual holocaust denial
make fun of a liberal and a fascist cries
tankie shill-like activity
Please review These Nuts
you should feel embarrassed
clown ass can’t even spell “deez”
I never feel embarrassed around statists
you should, they’re probably much cooler than you if you’re outflanking them from the right like you are here
What a knee-slapper
You are gonna make me do a sectarianism
life is hard for you NAFO trolls now that you’re off reddit
Please review These Nuts and never forget that Mao killed more people than Stalin and Hitler combined!
Holocaust apologism and anti-communism on my hexbear?
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi!!!111”
Welcome to federation, hope you enjoy what will surely be a very brief stay!
People who think any communist is worse than Hitler is a nazi apologist and anti-communist by definition
Anyone who engages in Holocaust denial is indeed a Nazi.
You radiate angry 60 year old energy, if you are not in fact 60 years old you should see a doctor
The fastest and easiest way of getting people to stop calling you a nazi is to stop doing nazi things.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
You’re doing holocaust denial right now. Nazi propaganda written by uniform wearing German nazis during nazi Germany. Know better do better.
Spoken like true fascists.
I am once again asking liberals to learn that fascism doesn’t just mean “something I don’t like”
Scanning Umberto Eco’s 14 points, China ticks most of them.
It’s certainly not communist else they would be redistributing the wealth of the billionaires, not welcoming them into the ruling party.
No it doesn’t, not unless you’re deliberately distorting fact to make it fit
else they would be redistributing the wealth of the billionaires, not welcoming them into the ruling party.
Hey look who wants to have an opinion without doing investigation. Is it any surprise they’re only able to speak nonsense?
Cancel culture is the real fascism
Cancel culture is just changing the channel when there’s someone on your TV screen that you don’t like.
You want go clockwork orange and strap people down, tape their eyes open and force them to watch the things you want them to watch? Because that would ensure the freedom of the people on TV to say whatever they want, right? The freedom of Hollywood assholes are more important that our freedom to change the channel, amirite?
What the fuck are you even talking about with Hollywood and television? Are you on a script? Bitch, you’re the one complaining about cancel culture. You’re the one equating being made fun of for having stupid reactionary opinions to literal torture. Can you please put in the absolute bare minimum of effort when you speak to at least remember the topic of fucking discussion??
I haven’t been so befuddled by a completely deranged and incoherent reply since I last posted on
. Buddy I do not miss dealing with dipshits like you.
Is this weak shit really the best lemmy has to offer?
Try harder, libs.
ATTENTION
Get lost,
Let’s see that hog, chud
capitalism kills more people than whatever you think the worst of communism is.
“More Indians died from british colonialism than have ever existed” is not a great argument
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Removed by mod
I never said they didn’t
unironically using the word “tankie” in 2023
Hog out or log out, dronie
So it begins. The great Redditification of our time
Yeah! How dare they - checks notes - fly in international airspace.
Only the US can do that, tankie
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so brave
IDK dude that’s a lot of sex
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Fuck the USA.
