Summary
Wisconsin resident Bradley Bartell voted for Trump’s promise to crack down on “criminal illegal immigrants,” but now his Peruvian wife Camila Muñoz has been detained by ICE.
Muñoz, from Peru, overstayed her visa but had applied for legal residency. On their way home from a honeymoon, immigration agents detained her at a Puerto Rico airport.
Despite no criminal record, she remains in a Louisiana detention center. Her case reflects ICE’s broadened enforcement that now includes documented immigrants.
Bartell, once supportive of stricter immigration policies, now questions the impact on families like his own.
I have zero sympathy for anyone who supported or still support Trump. They deserve pain. It’s the only language they understand.
You shouldn’t have to have it happen to you before you realize the impact it has on others, but that’s what we’re up against.
Empathy takes a little thought and many people just can’t think.
I once saw it described on Lemmy that Conservatives have sympathy but no empathy.
I saw a Ted talk that talked about inability to entertain the hypothetical. Some people are simply unable to entertain the hypothetical "what if my wife is deported’, they can only recognize it when it becomes "my wife is being deported ".
I’ve heard that some people have difficulty with hypotheticals in general. not just on political issues, like it’s a surprisingly common cognitive issue.
Stimulating watch!
Link, please?
I think both (edit: lack of) Empathy and this inability are required.
Inability to entertain the hypothetical is a failure in the pure logic reasoning side, quite independent of Empathy.
So, even the purest of sociopaths (hence, no Empathy whatsoever) can reason that “this can turn around and bit me” and thus not do certain things against others purelly for the selfish reason of not wanting to risk it coming around and bitting them.
Meanwhile those with Empathy will partly feel the emotions of others when observing them, and also when imagining “how does/will this make them feel”. They don’t tend to do things that hurt others because they themselves end up feeling some of the pain via their own Empathy.
So people with high Empathy won’t even want to do things to hurt others because it feels bad, those with low or no Empathy but an ability to entertain the hypothetical won’t support certain kinds of things that will hurt large groups of “others” purelly because of the higher risk that they themselves might directly or indirectly end up worse off from it and only the ones combining low Empathy and that inability to entertain the hypothetical (or just being too stupid to even begin to understand the risks of those things) will actual support such broad attacks on “others”.
And they confuse the two and think they’re being empathetic. I’m not even sure they have sympathy anymore.
And there’s this whole war on empathy thing going on for a while.
From the article I don’t get a sense he is at all questioning his vote. He feels his case is special and the government messed up. For him. She’s vetted, so it’s ok. The others deserve what they are getting.
Yep. Brackets by me:
[Him and his wife] have been thinking a lot about [his] vote for Trump.
“I knew they were cracking down,” he said. “I guess I didn’t know how it was going down.”
He imagined the administration would target people who snuck over the border and weren’t vetted
But his wife, “they know who she is and where she came from,” he said. “They need to get the vetting done and not keep these people locked up. It doesn’t make any sense.”
The dumbfuck doesn’t show any contrition at all, he just says oops I didn’t know. When this topic came up in the interview, he didn’t admit any regret or that he put himself (and his wife) in this position - he just says that the government is wrong to do this to him/his wife, and that they should go after other illegals instead. What a piece of shit.
He’s probably just playing CoD while his wife shivers in a cell. His main grievance is that regular sandwiches aren’t arriving.
I bet he’s playing cello suite no.1 in G major
lol. Where is this from?
An article from just after Jan 6th happened. My phone says I saved it on Jan 8th, 2021, so it was literally a day or two after.
My sister in law’s family are all El Salvadorian refugees in Houston. Everyone under 50 are citizens now, but las abuelitas are not. They were all massive Trump supporters hoping that he will kick out “all the illegals” but are convinced that their grandparents wont be deported, and that they might be able to bring in more family.
Juxtapose that to my family, where my English mom was naturalized 20 years ago after coming to the US on a green card. My family have always been pro-immigrarion since we would never dream of denying someone the same opportunity that we were given. We are all ao flabbergasted by it, but they all love Bukele as well, so i guess it shouldn’t be a surprise.
This is the problem endemic with the GOP voter mindset as a whole. They lack any shred of compassion and only care about themselves. The point of a society is shared burden. If you don’t want to love your neighbor, go live in the woods
Empathy is a marker of intelligence. I strongly doubt the education of conservatives. Hence the need for first-hand experience
Honestly I think this is part of why conservatives like homeschooling so much; being in a close classroom environment teaches most people empathy as they quickly realize they are not the center of the teacher or anyone else’s universe.
Conservatives want to deprive us the lesson of empathy.
I pity Madam but I have little sympathy for Sir.
I have little sympathy for Madame. She travelled
out of the countryto Puerto Rico for her honeymoon, knowing she overstayed on her visa. Given what had happened in the weeks leading up to them leaving the US last week, she really should have not gotten on that plane.The reason I sympathize with Madam is the same reason I sympathize with most migrants: they’re not doing it to hurt the country they migrate to, they’re trying to have a shot at a better life. I totally get what you’re saying but that doesn’t make her a bad person.
Sir however is a dumbass: he did the very thing the guy he voted for said he would crack down on and now he’s bitching and moaning… Well ya know, faces, leopards and all that.
She should have left him when he supported a rapist criminal for President of the country she wishes to join. Face-eating voter by proxy.
Unfortunately, there’s a high chance her immigration application depends on her being married to him. My husband and I have been at his process for going on 8 years, and it entirely rests on me sponsoring him. If we were to separate, his whole case would get shut down, and he starts over with an even more expensive and complicated process. We aren’t going to divorce because we love each other, but it’s still something that his lawyer had to advise us about.
Good point I guess, but it’s clearly a no win situation in this case. I hope you guys make it, but probably your husband shouldn’t
leave the countrygo anywhere near a border for a while.I suspect people like your husband might even be at risk after naturalization during this administration.
Thank you. This whole system is honestly a clusterfuck. Its been 11 years and we’re still fighting. I give immigrants more of a devils advocate than maybe I should because of our experience, but its hard not to because I’ve seen the shittiness of our current system. Its also why I hate the whole “ThEy ShOuLd JuSt CoMe HeRe LeGaLlY” argument. Its not that easy for so many of them. Its expensive (we’re at about 25k with probably more to be spent), overly complicated, and one single misstep sends you back to square one.
Luckily, we aren’t near a border, and in a purple state, so it’s not as dangerous here as other places. But it’s still terrifying with this administration.
Just don’t forget it’s a 100 miles from borders and coasts.
Stay safe, good luck, and if it comes down to it, maybe have your husband keep his original citizenship in case it makes more sense for you to both leave here.
The stupidest thing she did was marry someone who would vote that way. She should have left his ass the second he cast that ballot, if not before.
She went to Puerto Rico. Which is a US territory.
That may be true, but they have been rounding up legal immigrants at the various ports of entry for weeks. I didn’t see that the trip was to PR, but either way, they’ve rounded up several legal immigrants just here in San Ysidro. She knew she was no longer legally here, fucked around and found out.
I honestly believe these idiots that voted for Trump somehow thought that they would be immune to his policies. He doesn’t give a fuck about you.
For sure. It’s the classic:
I know it’s been getting a lot of mileage on Lemmy lately, but:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
- Wilholt’s Law
He figured he was in the first group, and since conservatives tend to think women are property, he figured her being with him put her in that group too. Whoops.
This is a really good read on these types of situations. He’s a white guy and he thought that was enough. that means the rules don’t apply to him. I think as we are trying to figure these people out we sometimes overcomplicate it and a lot of the times the reasons are really quite simple. Just like them.
All conservatives want this law to be reality, and they all want to be in the first group. When you look at it in that light, all their supposedly contradictory actions make sense.
It seems like most of the time the realization they come to is less ‘oh wow maybe this is bad actually’ and more ‘hey, you put me in the wrong group!’
In general we give people who act stupid way too much credit, they’re actually just fucking stupid.
Conversely, we’re way too comfortable letting politicians play stupid instead of calling them out for their malicious intentions. And if the politician truly is stupid (Trump) there are handlers behind them pulling the strings
American exceptionalism
They thought by bending the knee to Trump, they would be exempt from his bullshit. You’re 100% right here. He doesn’t give a fuck about Americans, their families or the down troddened.
Trump only cares about Trump.
And anyone with power or money that will kiss his butt.
She definitely was not Muskinaire, that’s one of the ways you can bend your illegally-legally.
Hold the fuck up, she was already OVERSTAYING her Visa and these idiots thought it was a good idea to TRAVEL? Nah they both got what they fucking deserved. It doesn’t matter that you’re awaiting your residency application, you have already passed your exit date, why the fuck would you be traveling for your honeymoon
Edit: I’m literally standing in the airport awaiting my fiance’s return from Mexico right now, this shit makes all the people who actually read their paperwork and follow the rules, look bad when they get lumped in with these idiots.
Apparently she got stuck in the States when all the borders were closed during the pandemic, which seems pretty reasonable grounds for overstaying.
But - she didn’t leave when the borders re-opened. She had fallen in love and at some point she filed paperwork to normalize her status - though they’re pretty coy about when they filled the papers, so I suspect that was done after the borders re-opened and she should have left.
.
I’m also going to point out what I haven’t seen in any of the comments so far which is that, with ICE being pressured to increase the number of deportations, they’re opting to go for low-hanging fruit. Unfortunately, that doesn’t mean raiding places that they’ve known for decades are hiring illegal immigrants, arresting and prosecuting and imprisoning the owners and managers.
It does mean that they’re hanging out at at least some airports, and it sounds like they’re running passenger lists ahead of time (because they knew exactly who to approach). I mean, why to go the trouble of driving out to some farm or factory in the middle of nowhere, trying to chase down people who know the area better than you ever will, when you can sit at a comfy air-conditioned desk and only bother to get up when the computer lets you know that your “target” is trying to check in for their flight?
Agree completely, and to me when people like these two decide to do whatever they want because their love is “special”, it shows ICE that hey, this is way easier and they’ll focus more on these situations. This puts all the completely legal and above board immigrants in danger now.
Nobody deserves to be punished for arbitrary political boundaries.
That being said, it’s satisfying to see the people supporting those boundaries get punished by them.
I agree, but she and anyone else in her position have SIGNED paperwork in agreement with the terms that by X date you will leave the country. What the fuck else are we supposed to do if we just shrug and say oh well it’s just a date. These two were blatantly attempting to trounce the laws and just do whatever they wanted.
Exactly. Did my dude think he could Karen his way through Customs? Papers have to be in order with Biden or Trump, now it’s worse though because they detain your ass.
You don’t go through customs to go to Puerto Rico, since it’s a US territory.
You still need to identify yourself to get on the plane. If your visa is flagged as expired, they are going to know and snatch you up
Right, but I’m just saying this is no different from flying from Minneapolis to Denver. Someone saying “well of course ICE was gonna snatch you up, you set foot in an airport” is kind of crazy.
I’m not defending ICE scooping up people. If you know that your visa is expired, you should assume that you are on their radar. Airlines verify all their passengers with TSA to ensure that no one is on a no fly list or q watchlist. Airports are secured locations where your identity has to be verified. Literally all it takes is for ICE to see you have signed up for a flight next Friday, and they can have an agent waiting for you at your gate.
Hold up. Is ICE “scooping” or “snatching”?
Not really, you are knowingly living here with an expired visa, you had ample opportunity to plan, reapply, change status, and many other options, they just…didn’t. So, as a non citizen with an expired visa they no longer have freedom of movement (as a visa grants you specifically, freedom of movement within the borders of the United States and it’s Territories)
On their way home from a honeymoon, immigration agents detained her at a Puerto Rico airport.
Oh are you saying I misread that? Like they honeymooned outside the US and were entering the US through Puerto Rico? That would make more sense.
That’s how it reads to me, yeah.
Just reread it, sounds like that’s not the case.
But last month, on their way home to Wisconsin after honeymooning in Puerto Rico, an immigration agent pulled Muñoz aside in the airport.
Guess I missed that. Never even left the country, damn.
Removed by mod
Being in an international relationship, I’m sure you understand how tricky and stressful some of these paperwork matters can be. Just deciding what type of visa to apply for when you are in a relationship can be taxing.
You are right that for the majority of people, the bureaucracy works as long as you file things correctly. They should have done it right from the start. But there are a lot of personal situations that can complicate it.
As an aside, it is mind boggling to me the number of immigrants who wholeheartedly support Trump, even with family ties that are endangered by his actions.
Warning, essay.
Many many reasons for the immigrants who support him all of them bad reasons obviously.
-White-Passing Hispanics, especially CDMX, Monterey within Mexico and outside, Argentina, Colombia, Brazil (obv. not the darker skinned Brazilians) etc. that can be seen by whites as “the good ones”, and by the Hispanics themselves. These people, the ones who make a point to embrace the “whiteness” of their bloodline, allowing them to identify more with their European colonizers rather than the darker skinned natives, or even Mestizos (mixed race, though at this point most people are decedents of decedents of decedents of the original Mestizos). Their tie to that European “whiteness” somehow makes them better than those darker than themselves.
-Machismo culture being deeply ingrained in many families causing them to “admire” a “strong” man. Not a single macho man is actually macho (except for Macho Man) under Machismo, it is a warped idea of what constitutes macho that idolizes the men and puts them up front as the default lead of any situation especially family just because they are male.
-There is unfortunately, a STRONG sense of “I got mine” or pulling the ladder up behind you among many many immigrants, Hispanic or otherwise. This goes along with the sense of “well we did it so it can’t be that hard”, they fail to realize that yes, it may have been easy for you but for others it is not.
-Last I can think of, the kids and grand-kids of immigrants. Many did not get taught about the struggles of their ancestors, or were taught and don’t care, sometimes you just get a bad egg kids who doesn’t give a shit about his heritage. Sometimes this comes from their feeling like an “other” when living in an area with a Hispanic minority. This can cause them to seek out belonging and feel resentment to their ancestors and heritage for bringing them there, for making them into a minority and grow some unhealthy selfhate, and then falling in with like minds who also hate the “others” making them into “one of the good ones.” (ive types this term too many times today)
Their tie to that European “whiteness” somehow makes them better than those darker than themselves.
Yeah, this is the whole point of “racial” categories in USA: “hispanic”, “latino”, “white latino”, etc. It’s all about preserving bullshit race “science” and eurocenticism in service to white supremacy.
The fact that some people see “white” as the default and the rest as “ethnic” is ridiculous
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“but… it shouldn’t have affected ME, you know?”
Right because my situation is special. I’m special and these laws don’t apply to me. @shithead I’ve voted for you 3 times, please help rectify this mistake.
How ironic would it be if he pressured his illegal immigrant wife to vote for t too 🤔
Another dumbass who still hasn’t figured it out.
Muñoz, from Peru, overstayed her visa … Bartell, once supportive of stricter immigration policies, …
“Supportive of stricter immigration policies,” doesn’t turn in his wife for violating existing immigration policies.
“I got mine”, he thought.
An american woman wouldn’t put up with his shit. My brother is unfortunately a trumper, and he got a foreign wife because she is the only woman that will put up with his shit that a normal woman would have walked out of years ago.
She slaves over him like a tradwife, raises his kids that isn’t hers from the previous woman that walked away from his shit. But he’s got joint custody.
I understand this is (hopefully) not how you meant it, but opposing “foreign wife” to “normal woman” is a rather unfortunate choice of words.
Yeah this isn’t great. While we can’t say for sure, “woman in a safer position” may well describe this situation as it’s an unfortunate pattern.
Poor choice of words but I’ve seen it myself. Old divorced racist conservatives literally traveling to Thailand for wives. Their goal is to find subservient women that they can’t get at home. Nothing against the foreigners it’s more and indictment on the American
I read it more as that’s what the brother likely thinks of his wife.
I’ve literally met old ass men with Vietnamese or Chinese wives half their age who INTRODUCE them as ‘My insert nationality here wife’
“No, no, she’s on of the good ones, not one of criminals, and she’s with me.”
the way the media talks about immigration and trumps policies are very specific and very corrosive. most of us here having this conversation understand what’s really at stake because we think about and analyze these things, but american media intentionally lets people who don’t know think they know what they don’t.
let me explain.
when donald trump talks about criminal aliens in our country, he means anyone born on foreign soil, born to foreign parents, or with citizenship somewhere else who has committed a crime. a crime to him is any breach of law. and he uses the terms “illegals” and “aliens” to distance people from their own humanity. but the media will cover it as he’s only interested in criminals. you know, like drug kingpins, traffickers, gun runners. our mass media misleads the populace. the reason they do this is doing so does numbers for them. when you have a for profit media apparatus, you will make more money if there is always an emergency. this way they can trick people like this guy into making their own emergency, and then they can package his tragedy and sell it to us.
everything is going according to plan
You can’t promise to round up and deport 10 million “criminal, illegal immigrants” without implying that all of the ~10 million undocumented residents are criminal. Unless you’ve been listening to Ann Coulter and believe there are 50 million undocumented - 1 in every 6 people in the country.
These are the same morons that think Bezos isn’t rich enough to give all his workers raises; that ‘he would lose all his money!’
Math is not their strong suit.
i know that. you know that. but not enough people do. they don’t understand scale or large numbers. they think if we increase minimum wage by $7, the price of a big mac will go up $7.
our education system is designed to make people susceptible to exploitation.
everything is going according to plan
You have to remember that to THESE people, being undocumented in any way shape or firm IS illegal. Whether or not that makes you a criminal is entirely different and they definitely say yes.
Good. I hope he’s fucking devastated. I hope his entire world is fucking crumbling. Everyone with three working braincells or more knew exactly what would happen if we let the christonationalist fascists have total control of the government, and pieces of subhuman trash like him willingly made it happen.
I hate that as americans were so stupid we have to learn like this because we can’t hear people out before it gets to this point.
Like I believe one of your founding fathers Benjamin Franklin said: “Experience holds a dear school, but fools learn from no other”
He would have been pretty nonplussed by our current batch of fools who can’t even learn from experience.
Well that’s what decades of destroying education will do
There need to be some kind of actual education before it can be destroyed.
I had a Scottish chick in Edinburgh tell me that I was the only American she enjoyed talking to. I didn’t realize just how poorly we were viewed overseas until I went myself.
The amazing thing about this is that Americans who travel are on average a lot more open-minded and intelligent than those who don’t. And we still make a terrible impression.
Guess you can’t take the murica out of an american
I didn’t realize just how poorly we were viewed overseas
We are poorly viewed by intelligent beings here too.
People here don’t even think. I feel like most people in my life barely understand they exist. They are like walking products that work for the evil that created them.
Haha, you think they learn.
they just refuse to listen.
Maybe a controversial opinion but I don’t think anyone belongs in an ICE detention centre regardless of who their spouse voted for. I don’t think this is funny.
Haven’t you heard? Empathy is a sin and the weakness of Western civilization. It’s what a true conservative would want.
Empathy and goodwill aren’t infinite, like any resource they can be depleted. I really cannot muster enough fucks to give about someone who voted for that turd a second time. Feel sorry for his wife, though.
Yeah, I agree, it’s not funny, it’s a fucking nightmare, and I hate that so many people are dumb enough to believe the restrained version of Trump the media sells and not the words coming out of Trump’s idiot mouth.
As someone who doesn’t live in tge USA, I don’t feel empathy for everyone who voted for Trump or didn’t vote at all because eQuAl SiDeS bAd. Project 2025 and deportation plans were known before the elections so you brought this down on yourself. It really sucks for everyone else though, within USA and its (former) allied countries.
Who am I to prevent a fash from locking up a fash?
I reckon, “first they came” would be applicable here, however the realist in me says they would continue to go and lock up non fascists
First they came for the fascists, and I didn’t care, because it’s what the fascist wanted, and it helps to thin their numbers?
Yes, very true, unfortunately fighting to ensure no one suffers from fascists, also benefits fascists from being affected.
What evidence do you have that this lady is fascist?
When 9 people sit down to eat dinner with 1 nazi, you are 10 nazis eating dinner.
She fucking married him. Did she not know how much he loved the notion of her being deported? Or did she just think only “the others” would be deported?
Heey I didn’t think they’d eat my face
Yes, go ahead feeling completely satisfied and smug. I’m sure leopards would never eat the face of lib. Your vote will protect you!!! d’oh…
Are you crying?
The more I see stories like this, the more I wonder if Americans can make it out of this hole they’ve dug. The average inhabitant seems… rather lacking, compared to other developed countries.
I disagree. People are dumb. Pick a country and I’m sure I can find shitty takes reported in the news. Hell, look at Brexit
Agreed. The thought that you’re above the con, you could not fall for a grift, is the greatest thing a con man could hope for in a target.
Go watch any advice from cult experts. The people who think themselves too smart to fall into a cult, are MORE likely to be tricked or convinced into one
Exactly, the US government has made it this far on good luck and overall commitment to a mythical American ideal. All it took was a successful populist candidate and some class war propaganda to undo all that.
Brexit was indeed a dumb move, but let’s be honest here, it’s nowhere near what’s happening in the US right now. I can’t think of anything comparable in a first-world country, at least not since WWII.
… yet
There’s literally been a genocide ongoing in Palestine for almost 1.5 years. Hegemonic support for this genocide is a direct cause of growing fascism.
Liberal blind spots are amazingly huge.
Frankly I don’t think of Israel as a first-world country, so that hadn’t crossed my mind.
to
otherdeveloped countriesPeople are dumb, especially when lied to 24/7.
The average Russian probably still thinks that Ukraine is Nazis and that they are winning. The average Chinese doesn’t know about Tiananmen square students protest or the brutal suppression much less Uyghurs genocide. Name a country and there’s something along those lines ongoing or at least in recent history. The far-right in Europe is doing much like America was just 10-20y ago other places are already ahead into their authoritarian phase.
The money the couple saved for a down payment on a home has evaporated into attorneys fees and savings to pay a bond for her release, if she’s given that chance.
There’s a silver lining to this. Think about all the high quality white collar jobs (lawyers) that this is supporting. Way to stimulate the economy, Trumpers! /s
