They sell things that come in cups, or with napkins. Lots of people cycle/run/walk here instead of driving, seems pretty stupid.
Taking away the bins doesn’t mean you don’t produce rubbish…
Edit: I think there is still a bin IN the cafe, but most people eat/drink outside. Lots of people asking staff where the bins are. Still hypocritical I think though? (And still mildly infuriating to remove well used bins!)
I’d give this some odds of reducing trash pollution. It can seem frustrating, but it MAY change people’s behavior in a way that reduces litter. Behavioral economics can be counterintuitive.
No. Most people just start littering when there’s no trash bins nearby.
Think of the stupidest person you know, etc etc.
They’re shit people. I take cans home to recycle because we don’t have proper recycling at my workplace.
Yes, they are. But that does not make it better that there is no bin. I have been in a situation with no bin but trash that can not simply be carried (disgusting liquid) and had to dump it. That is extremely rare for me, I usually pick up others trash. But there are situations where you simply need a bin, no matter how green you are.
If you operate a business that sells things in paper plates and wrappers, you certainly have a moral responsibility to have waste receptacles to collect those waste products.
The problem isn’t that a park lacks trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash bins.
I feel the same way, but about places that sell coffee having an obligation to provide a public bathroom.
Glares angrily at 7-11
Let us sing praise for the Rhineland Palatinatian Landesverordnung zur Ausführung des Gaststättengesetzes (Gaststättenverordnung - GastVO -), in effect since 1971, which mandates one toilet each for males and females in every restaurant or pub, and more for larger establishments.
The he cafe still has bins inside, they have a way to collect their refuse.
The park removed the bins since people from the cafe weee likely overfilling it.
Where does the sign say the cafe removed them…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry and speaks only for what they did. Remove the park bins.
How do you know that? You’re not OP.
It’s like my university campus removing all ashtrays to stop people from smoking.
That’s not how this works.
I used to work for the Woodland Trust and believe that this is the right thing to do. Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow and attract unwanted pests like rats. Rats will also eat the eggs of ground nesting birds and cause other environmental issues.
If they are selling food on site then the food vendor should have a bin that their customers can use inside their cabin/cafe and dispose of the waste daily as part of the service.
Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow
Think I found the problem— why not do the obvious thing and empty them more often?
Because that would mean employing someone to empty them regularly, and as most woodland is few and far between in this country most woodland owners deem that an unnecessary expense.
There’s a cafe and forestry workers, is it that time consuming?
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
If people weren’t such babies and cleaned up after themselves, we wouldn’t need to waste taxpayers money on cleaning up after adults who could do it themselves.
The problem isn’t that a park removed their trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash cans.
The cafe still has garbage cans inside, and why would the forestry speak for the cafe…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry, why would you claim the cafe removed the bins when they stated THEY did themselves?
It’s like people just make shit up to get mad about. The sign told you who removed it for fucks sakes lmfao.
What makes you think the cafe still has bins inside? The OP here is claiming the bins were removed from the cafe/picnic area.
I dunno about you, but if I see a bin in a public area, I assume some is paid to empty it. I don’t empty it myself.
If you took your own garbage with you like a decent human, there would be no bins to be emptied and you would have better uses for that tax money.
Where did I imply the public should be doing it….?
So your entire argument is public bins are useless?
You understand that people should clean up after themselves whether or not there is a bin, but offering a bin is a useful service that greatly helps people out can be compatible right.
The cafe has a bin inside of it, put your garbage there before leaving.
They removed the bins from the public forestry path.
Not everyone is using the cafe? People are allowed not to eat in a private restaurant. The availability of a bin shouldn’t be dependent on spending money.
So they can’t afford to keep the land they have in trust so it is all the landless peasantry that should labor for the land holders because kindness ?
Wild argument. No one is “laboring for land holders”, they’re cleaning up after themselves for their own good and the good of everyone/thing around them
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
Sounds like there’s a bunch of people and some kind of organisation that runs this area, after all, they made the decision to take the bins away. This is also a cafe area, so someone’s making money off this zone.
THOSE PEOPLE ARE.
Yes… the sign is from the forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
If this was a businesses garbage, those usually aren’t overrun, since they have plenty of time and money to deal with the garbage.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
he forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
great. good.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
???
Genuine answer here, as someone who volunteers for the parks. A lot of times the budgets are tight, depending on whose responsibility it is to clean up the area and what services are there/nearby, the staffing just isn’t available. Yeah it’s a pretty easy thing to do in theory, but in practice when it becomes “okay and 2 hours of your shift is driving out there and emptying the cans” it’s not a far leap to just “Remove the cans, make the snack stand dispose of their garbage on their own”
I mean I get it, the cans are nice but also, like you’re an adult. Throw your trash away on your own.
“But then people will throw it on the ground!” Okay then pay someone to stand out there and slap every idiot that thinks littering is okay because they couldn’t find a can in 10 seconds.
It’s common decency in plenty of places around the world to take your garbage with you until you find a can. It’s not hard.
This is right by the cafe/site office/car park though. The reception desk is about 20m to the left and staffed during daylight hours year round.
Not like it’s in the middle of nowhere.
I get your point, there are very few bins elsewhere (mostly by the other car parks) and that’s fine. It’s just that the place that gives you rubbish makes it hard to responsibly get rid of it.
May I ask the name of this place? I’d like to pull it up on Google Maps and have a look at the layout.
Isn’t there a bin at the cafe?
I think that’s the problem. I interpret it as the cafe removed their bins.
It’s a sign from the forest ministry, they removed their bins.
Why on earth would you think a sign from the ministry of forestry would be speaking for and removing a cafes bins…?
Read the fucking sign for fucks sakes. It’s literally, right fucking there.
Read the fucking post for fucks sake. It’s right fucking there.
The sign says the bins were removed. The post headline says the bins were removed from the cafe area. This is a cafe at a visitor center at a forest.
Before you go insulting the reading comprehension of others, try working on your own.
Gentrified forest is the most cursed phrase I heard in a minute.
I think it’s a pretty good description. Has a tarmac car park, cafe, bike hire, 3 go ape routes, wheelchair accessible routes and until recently, bins!
You should look up the definition of “gentrification.” There are a ton of options that don’t suggest that the homeless people in the forest are being forced out and replaced with wealthier homeless people.
Maybe “commercialized” would be a better word choice? Alternatively, “developed” or “sanitized?”
What does homelessness have to do with anything? Gentrification isn’t specifically about homelessness, I don’t see anyone else mentioning it before now… where did you pull that from?
Gentrification seems to mean the rapid renovation of an area to appeal to a wealthier crowd, which this could easily cover.
Poor people won’t feel at home if there isn’t trash strewn everywhere. They’d probably avoid going to that place.
You are right, I was thinking the definition more being taking it up market, fancier etc. didn’t realise the term was more for the human effect.
Old people have moved there and the prices have skyrocketed.
This has been happening in New Zealand for a while. The theory seems to be that bins attract more litter and are a hazard to wildlife.
I was sceptical at first but it actually seems to work.
Perturbs me that they are selling food though. Surely yhe food sellers should have bins for which they are responsible in their immediate vicinity.
That might sound backwards but it isn’t
Squirrels and raccoons will rummage, and disperse trash. There isnt much you can do about that beyond 1. Harm wildlife or 2. Reduce trash.
Edit: Damn, this thread is full of people I would be fucking embarrassed to camp with. Where do y’all like to experience the outdoors so I can be sure to not cross your paths?
Or 3, provide animal-proof garbage disposals.
No bears left in blighty.
Yeah, typical Americans - won’t look elsewhere for solutions…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bear-proof-garbage-bins-made-in-lethbridge-1.4542351
You missed the the bit about dumbest tourists.
I get it that it is hip to hate on Americans right now, but your post is so unnecessarily self-righteous.
It’s been hip to hate on Americans for decades. It’s just more justified now. But you’re right, not because of bears.
Yeah, typical Americans - won’t look elsewhere for solutions…
We have those all over the place. Large National Parks like Yosemite are a special corner of hell because you quite literally have hordes of tourists from all over the world visiting on a daily basis. Randos who’ve rarely ever left the city see a can like that and may not know how to use it. In a place like Yosemite that rando could easily be from anywhere in the world.
Meanwhile I know of dozens of these kinds of cans located in some very small parks and camping areas here in Wyoming and no one has any problems with them at all.
Us “Americans” have those cans already and many of us know how to use them. You’ll need to find some other kind of shit to sling around.
I can attest that people around me in the south talk about how they love nature but if opening the trash can requires more than 3 brain cells they will most likely just throw their in the back of their truck and know it will blow out down the road or drop it next to the trash can and be proud they are keeping some custodial staff employed
Or
4. Continue to treat people as spoiled toddlers and hire servants to clean up after them.🙄
Or just like, pollute less and stop relying on others to clean up after you.
Especially when you leave your home.
And you think that’s going to happen by removing the trashcans?
Think?
It’s well established peer reviewed scientific literature.
And when it’s full or people still don’t want to walk 20 feet to them?
Also nothing is “animal proof” it’s all resistant and reliant on humans not being asses. Which they always prove they are when it comes to garbage.
Providing garbages doesn’t make people use them…
or people still don’t want to walk 20 feet to them?
This is the sort of case where I’ll make an effort to pick it up and throw it away. Even better if visibly clean (not in the bushes, not wet) and something somebody may have just forgot.
If there’s no trash can anywhere, I likely won’t unless certain conditions align.
There aren’t many wild camping spots in the UK, especially in forests. Definitely no raccoons either haha. This area would be more for walking or picnicking.
I’ll go out on a limb that Raccoons won’t rummage here :)
I agree with the sentiment but if they have a cafe selling things in disposable packaging then the best thing they can do is provide bins to deal with it. Pretending they don’t generate rubbish is just a false accounting trick.
No racoons here. The previous bins had spring loaded flaps to keep the animals out.
Or 3) change the garbage regularly on a bin with a latching lid. (common in forested areas)
This isn’t just a random bit of forest either, it’s near a shop that’s providing the public with a bunch of disposable items like paper cups and napkins. Not providing somewhere to dispose of those is inevitability going to lead to people leaving their garbage behind.
please clean up after yourself.
Weird, when Japan does it everyone praises them. I guess us western societies are just too trashy to clean up after ourselves.
I came here to comment on Japan, haha. Almost everywhere you go, no trashcans and no trash! Their society is like a hive mind in a lot of ways, though. I’m not sure it’ll work with Rugged American Individualism®
Edit to add: Damn, I just realized OP is in England. Maybe they can make it work.
I looked it up and they seem to still have them in train stations plus in areas where trash/recyclables is expected to be generated (convenience stores, vending machines, parks) so it seems like a bit of a stretch (also the reason for less trash cans being a 1995 sarin gas attack).
Even just the train station bit seems like an unfair comparison for places without any sort of public transportation (where people walked/biked from home). Yeah, I can see people being more likely to hold their trash if passing receptacles is part of their planned route.
Japan takes the garbage bins away from cafes?
No they’re there, however there aren’t trash bins once you leave the food vendor. If you walk away then you’re responsible for the trash. So people just finish eating and dispose the trash there. Even if it’s a stall or food truck, you can hand your trash back to the staff, they will happily accept it.
If it’s for carry-out, people will pack their trash for disposal at home (you’ll see a ton of people walking around with backpacks and totebags).
Yeah for this reason, you don’t see this culture of eating/drinking while on-the-go in Japan lol. It’s too inconvenient. It’s something that tourists have to adjust to. But it’s nice - the country is very clean and beautiful, no trash in sight. You might see some little old lady picking up a piece of trash that isn’t even hers lol. That’s the pride they take in their country.
Also there’s an important difference in Japan that should be mentioned. A lot of the success is due to shame culture. You will feel like a bad person and get the side-eye for littering.
As far as this sign in England - I think suddenly taking away all the trash bins for a place that relies on them would be a disaster! But if that’s the plan, then maybe taking only some away here and there could work over time. People need to be trained after all lol.
Source: I spent 1.5 months in Japan
It’s not actually much different in Germany, there’s zero bins just randomly lining the streets. Areas with shops will have some, parks and playgrounds usually have one or two, but that’s it. “Park” here is to be understood quite broadly, it might be a footpath with nice view and some benches. Bus stops also tend to have bins.
I’ve never been to a Japanese cafe, but knowing what I know about them from Japanese acquaintances, yeah, mostly.
They’d probably either use actual dishware that is returned and washed, or yes, expect people to bring disposable waste home with them. Everything I’ve heard is that public trash bins are not non-existent, but they are rare.
Lots of corner stores and vending machines in Japan that sell basically full meals and no trash can in sight.
I don’t think people realize that custodial staff are different than general park staff. If they have bins then they need to deal with that whole process and have at least one dedicated employee. I’d rather have to carry my trash and let the park use that money elsewhere.
For what it’s worth, I do agree it’s probably “gentrification” in the sense that the concept of carry in/carry out is more prevalent in middle class communities, mostly because they are more likely to engage in hobbies where or go to places where it’s a more prevalent part of the culture. I’m not sure non-middle class people have the same experiences/lifestyle that lead to thinking this makes sense to do.
Everyone praises them? The only times Ive heard (from westerners visiting/moving there) is that it is very annoying that there is never anywhere to throw away their trash
Different experiences then, because most people I’ve spoken to about it there and back home have talked about how clean it was despite that and commended the society for being so responsible with their waste.
This is basically ubiquitous on many public lands, specifically here in the US. The term is “carry in, carry out.” Bins accumulate trash (obviously) which in turn is an attractant for rodents, bears, raccoons, etc. which causes its own problems. Wild animals should not be artificially fed by human trash. Trash can also be blown out of cans, or scattered by animals. Overall, especially for low traffic environments, the best plan is to have people take all their trash out with them.
TL;DR: Pack out your trash.
If you’re planning a picnic, you bring your own trash bags, sort your trash, and dispose of it properly. And you will eventually make the effort to produce less rubbish, for example, ask to take your order without napkins or a plastic bag.
You operate a cafe and sell stuff that is trash 5 minutes later? You print a trash bin.
You can always take your trash with you instead of expecting someone else to take it for you. The culture of throwing shit away instead of reusing, and reducing, is so ubiquitous, that’s the infuriating thing.
They should give me tea in a mug instead of a waxed paper cup (and plastic lid!) then!
Does the cafe not have a bin?
I’m not sure if it’s a thing by you, but it’s common where I live to carry your own thermos.
Why can’t they have a dumpster with lid?
People are just going to litter if they didn’t plan ahead to bring a trash bag.
They had some reasonably nice bins with wooden shells around them and spring loaded doors to keep the birds etc out.
Don’t buy anything at the cafe if you’re not prepared to carry it out, I wouldn’t.
It mildly infuriates me that you can’t see the logic in taking your rubbish with you when you leave.
While this is the ideal outcome, in reality people are just going to throw their trash in the bushes.
And they should be fined for dumping.
Or the park could invest in basic services instead of criminalizing guests.
People who do this already did even when bins were still there. Because placing rubbish into pocket or backpack is so hard!
Saying they are committed to producing no rubbish on site on a sign, then selling things that result in rubbish, is hypocritical.
Do you have an example of something that would be sold that had no resulting rubbish?
bread bowl lol
You eat the spoon?
i think they should invent bread spoons for that purpose
Bread comes in a package… The soup that goes in it had a container…. Utensils to consume…?
The cafe has a garbage, and they don’t want it filled up with public waste, so when you’re done, take it back to the cafe and they will gladly dispose of their garbage for you.
Food that comes on reused plates and/or drinks in reused cups. Much of the advertising around littering prevention was developed by industries who saw profits in creating a lot of single use items that wanted to shift the blame for any litter to individuals instead of them. When you see an empty bottle of Pepsi floating in a pond, Pepsi deserves more criticism than whoever dropped that specific bottle since they are the ones who brought it into the world, and they do it on a much larger scale than any 1 person could ever manage.
Food that comes on reused plates and/or drinks in reused cups.
The food all came in packaging, and stuff breaks or gets dropped, NOTHING is ever rubbish free dude…
Take your garbage back to cafe, they removed the bins so it wouldn’t be filled up by other people’s shit.
If you are a business generating rubbish, it is your moral responsibility to account for that rubbish. The business selling stuff doesn’t have their employees filling their pockets with the bulk food packaging rubbish at the end of the day to dispose of at home; they have their own bins. They just don’t want to be responsible for all the rubbish they generate cause it costs them more money than trying to put that responsibility on someone else.
If you are a business generating rubbish, it is your moral responsibility to account for that rubbish.
Yes and if you take them their garbage they gave you with their food, they will deal with it. They just don’t want to deal with the public’s granola bar wrappers, so they are now where they control the garbage.
If you bring them your garbage and they dispose of it in their bins, does that not fit your moral requirement? Or do you want bins every 10 feet to satisfy your laziness? Can’t walk balk to where you paid for stuff to return the garbage….,?
You seem to think there is no bins… obviously the cafe will produce garbage, I never stated they wouldn’t. I was pointing out people like you, that there HAS TO STILL BE BINS. So yes, they do have a way of dealing with it. So take your rubbish to them, and they will gladly deal with it. Does that work?
A corndog with a twizzler for the stick
No, which is why it’s stupid to take bins away from stores/cafes.
I don’t see a cafe in the picture? Are you sure this isn’t down the trail and the cafe still has a garbage…?
Cafe deals with its own garbage, and I’m sure if you asked to put your napkin in it, they wouldn’t have a single issue.
The cafe obviously doesn’t want its garbage filled up with what people brought with them, they will deal with their own, 100% guaranteed.
Photo is under the red dot (
you can see the play area in the background of the photo)nvm, no you can’t. But that’s where it is!
So the inside of the cafe obviously has bins that could be used… and they don’t want to PUBLIC non cafe people filling it……
Do people even stop to think for 2 seconds before bitching?
So only mildly infuriating?
Going from OPs description as the sign doesn’t show the area. There is a couple benches in the background, which leads me to believe it’s reasonably accurate.
Obv the situation is a little different if OPs not being honest.
Even then, the cafe will take your garbage and put in their bin. They don’t want their refuse filled up with public waste as the charge would fall on them.
Clearly they have a way of still dealing with waste…. And why wouldn’t they take their own waste back? People are going off the deep end without even stopping to think for half a fucking second.
Or… You could just put a bin where the public can use it.
This is stupid.
I can see taking things that I brought with me like granola bar wrappers and water bottles, but if you have a cafe selling cheeseburgers, fountain drinks, and coffee, it seems dumb to expect people to carry all that home rather than allowing them to throw it away at the same place they bought and consumed it.
You’re weird for not knowing the OP’s actual point?
It’s a cafe area; they are giving you trash with your meal/drink, not providing a bin for it, then expecting you to pack it out.
Expecting people to packout the garbage they brought with them is one thing (that still doesn’t get followed); but if you’re going to provide the public with trash, you’ve gotta give them somewhere to dispose of it.
