They sell things that come in cups, or with napkins. Lots of people cycle/run/walk here instead of driving, seems pretty stupid.
Taking away the bins doesn’t mean you don’t produce rubbish…
Edit: I think there is still a bin IN the cafe, but most people eat/drink outside. Lots of people asking staff where the bins are. Still hypocritical I think though? (And still mildly infuriating to remove well used bins!)
This is the reason given in Australia by Parks Victoria
LEAVE NO TRACE
Advocate for minimal-impact practices wherever you go. Many people are surprised to find no bins in national parks. Waste attracts native animals, which can change their natural behaviour and harm both natural and cultural sites, as well as your personal belongings.
Always bring rubbish bags (and one for your neighbour) and take all your rubbish home. Help educate others about the importance of leaving the park pristine, minimising your impact on the delicate balance of the ecosystem.
I’d give this some odds of reducing trash pollution. It can seem frustrating, but it MAY change people’s behavior in a way that reduces litter. Behavioral economics can be counterintuitive.
EDIT: What matters is the result. If this makes more people litter, they should probably bring back the bins. If this reduces litter, they should keep it this way, regardless of how inconvenient or “stupid” you the reader find it.
No. Most people just start littering when there’s no trash bins nearby.
They’re shit people. I take cans home to recycle because we don’t have proper recycling at my workplace.
Yes, they are. But that does not make it better that there is no bin. I have been in a situation with no bin but trash that can not simply be carried (disgusting liquid) and had to dump it. That is extremely rare for me, I usually pick up others trash. But there are situations where you simply need a bin, no matter how green you are.
Think of the stupidest person you know, etc etc.
If you operate a business that sells things in paper plates and wrappers, you certainly have a moral responsibility to have waste receptacles to collect those waste products.
The problem isn’t that a park lacks trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash bins.
The he cafe still has bins inside, they have a way to collect their refuse.
The park removed the bins since people from the cafe weee likely overfilling it.
Where does the sign say the cafe removed them…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry and speaks only for what they did. Remove the park bins.
How do you know that? You’re not OP.
The OP edited their 5-hour old post about 2 hours ago according to the timestamp. Your comment is only 1 hour old 🤔.
You’re the one vehemently claiming the cafe removed the bins. So I throw that right back in your ignorant face.
For my side, we have a nice little sign that explains everything, if you would be arsed to read it that is…
I feel the same way, but about places that sell coffee having an obligation to provide a public bathroom.
Glares angrily at 7-11
Let us sing praise for the Rhineland Palatinatian Landesverordnung zur Ausführung des Gaststättengesetzes (Gaststättenverordnung - GastVO -), in effect since 1971, which mandates one toilet each for males and females in every restaurant or pub, and more for larger establishments.
It’s like my university campus removing all ashtrays to stop people from smoking.
That’s not how this works.
I used to work for the Woodland Trust and believe that this is the right thing to do. Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow and attract unwanted pests like rats. Rats will also eat the eggs of ground nesting birds and cause other environmental issues.
If they are selling food on site then the food vendor should have a bin that their customers can use inside their cabin/cafe and dispose of the waste daily as part of the service.
So empty them.
Just take your garbage home.
Bins in woodlands do not get emptied often and will often overflow
Think I found the problem— why not do the obvious thing and empty them more often?
Because that would mean employing someone to empty them regularly, and as most woodland is few and far between in this country most woodland owners deem that an unnecessary expense.
There’s a cafe and forestry workers, is it that time consuming?
And how do they get the garbage to the dump? You would need vehicles, insurance, garage, maintenance departments… it all snowballs.
Just be responsible for your own garbage, not a hard concept.
The cafe will have a contract with someone to take away waste, this waste could be included.
I totally agree people should take away rubbish that they create, unfortunately many dont.
Genuine answer here, as someone who volunteers for the parks. A lot of times the budgets are tight, depending on whose responsibility it is to clean up the area and what services are there/nearby, the staffing just isn’t available. Yeah it’s a pretty easy thing to do in theory, but in practice when it becomes “okay and 2 hours of your shift is driving out there and emptying the cans” it’s not a far leap to just “Remove the cans, make the snack stand dispose of their garbage on their own”
I mean I get it, the cans are nice but also, like you’re an adult. Throw your trash away on your own.
“But then people will throw it on the ground!” Okay then pay someone to stand out there and slap every idiot that thinks littering is okay because they couldn’t find a can in 10 seconds.
It’s common decency in plenty of places around the world to take your garbage with you until you find a can. It’s not hard.
It’s common decency in plenty of places around the world to take your garbage with you until you find a can.
But you’ve removed all the cans rather than fix your budgeting problems.
I’m sure the parking lot or your house has one. Why do you think other people should pay for your laziness to dispose of your own garbage?
That’s the function of the parks service. And it’s taxpayer money, so it’s my money paying for it too.
So now instead of them being able to provide other services they need to continue piddling money away so you can be lazy and throw your trash where you please?
People don’t want to pay more taxes so you can just be lazy and need garbage cans every 20 feet dude… shitty take lmfao. They would much rather the money go to making things better, not perpetuating laziness and creating eyesores.
Do you think people like seeing and smelling garbage bins while taking a nature walk?! Seriously?
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
If people weren’t such babies and cleaned up after themselves, we wouldn’t need to waste taxpayers money on cleaning up after adults who could do it themselves.
I dunno about you, but if I see a bin in a public area, I assume some is paid to empty it. I don’t empty it myself.
If you took your own garbage with you like a decent human, there would be no bins to be emptied and you would have better uses for that tax money.
Where did I imply the public should be doing it….?
So your entire argument is public bins are useless?
You understand that people should clean up after themselves whether or not there is a bin, but offering a bin is a useful service that greatly helps people out can be compatible right.
The cafe has a bin inside of it, put your garbage there before leaving.
They removed the bins from the public forestry path.
Not everyone is using the cafe? People are allowed not to eat in a private restaurant. The availability of a bin shouldn’t be dependent on spending money.
The problem isn’t that a park removed their trash cans. The problem is that a cafe removed their trash cans.
The cafe still has garbage cans inside, and why would the forestry speak for the cafe…? The sign is from the ministry of forestry, why would you claim the cafe removed the bins when they stated THEY did themselves?
It’s like people just make shit up to get mad about. The sign told you who removed it for fucks sakes lmfao.
What makes you think the cafe still has bins inside? The OP here is claiming the bins were removed from the cafe/picnic area.
Because they legally have to? You can’t have a food service business and not have garbage and recycling bins….
Are you just gonna make up any stupid reason you can come up with now to try and save face that you can’t read a sign?
The OP also claims there is still trash bins inside; and the edit to add this information was done 1 hour before this guy claims there is no bins inside 🤦♂️.
Who’s gonna do it and pay for it?
Sounds like there’s a bunch of people and some kind of organisation that runs this area, after all, they made the decision to take the bins away. This is also a cafe area, so someone’s making money off this zone.
THOSE PEOPLE ARE.
Yes… the sign is from the forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
If this was a businesses garbage, those usually aren’t overrun, since they have plenty of time and money to deal with the garbage.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
he forest ministry no? So the government that your tax money pays for would be dealing with it.
great. good.
But government agencies…? Give your head a shake bud.
???
So they can’t afford to keep the land they have in trust so it is all the landless peasantry that should labor for the land holders because kindness ?
Wild argument. No one is “laboring for land holders”, they’re cleaning up after themselves for their own good and the good of everyone/thing around them
This is right by the cafe/site office/car park though. The reception desk is about 20m to the left and staffed during daylight hours year round.
Not like it’s in the middle of nowhere.
I get your point, there are very few bins elsewhere (mostly by the other car parks) and that’s fine. It’s just that the place that gives you rubbish makes it hard to responsibly get rid of it.
May I ask the name of this place? I’d like to pull it up on Google Maps and have a look at the layout.
Isn’t there a bin at the cafe?
I think that’s the problem. I interpret it as the cafe removed their bins.
It’s a sign from the forest ministry, they removed their bins.
Why on earth would you think a sign from the ministry of forestry would be speaking for and removing a cafes bins…?
Read the fucking sign for fucks sakes. It’s literally, right fucking there.
Read the fucking post for fucks sake. It’s right fucking there.
The sign says the bins were removed. The post headline says the bins were removed from the cafe area. This is a cafe at a visitor center at a forest.
Before you go insulting the reading comprehension of others, try working on your own.
But the OP explicitly states that they believe they are still inside the cafe. In other comments they claim they are still available at other nearby parking lots.
The cafe is a building itself and the park removed the bins from outside.
You realize that OP probably missed stuff or intentionally withheld information to make this sound worse than it is?
Before you go insulting the reading comprehension of others, try working on your own.
Says the one assuming and claiming with zero evidence that the cafe removed them…? When there’s a nice little sign that explains everything already?
Read the sign, and have a little critical thinking yourself. This isn’t that hard to comprehend.
The cafe is a building. Inside are bins, OP had even stated this, or is OP not a good source when it doesn’t align with your ignorance?
I’m calling you out, since this has already been figured out, and you’re just late to the party and saying “the cafe did this”.
No they didn’t, stop perpetuating that lie that is easily disproved by the sign OP posted for us….
Gentrified forest is the most cursed phrase I heard in a minute.
I think it’s a pretty good description. Has a tarmac car park, cafe, bike hire, 3 go ape routes, wheelchair accessible routes and until recently, bins!
You should look up the definition of “gentrification.” There are a ton of options that don’t suggest that the homeless people in the forest are being forced out and replaced with wealthier homeless people.
Maybe “commercialized” would be a better word choice? Alternatively, “developed” or “sanitized?”
What does homelessness have to do with anything? Gentrification isn’t specifically about homelessness, I don’t see anyone else mentioning it before now… where did you pull that from?
Gentrification seems to mean the rapid renovation of an area to appeal to a wealthier crowd, which this could easily cover.
Generally, usage of the term “gentrification” refers to the improvement of neighborhoods - or other places where people live, like apartment complexes - and, due to increased cost of living, the displacement of the people who used to live there. Displacement of less wealthy current residents when gentrification occurs is so common that it’s implied. If it weren’t, people wouldn’t have such low opinions of gentrification.
If a forest has been gentrified, therefore, then - if you interpret “gentrified” in the same way - it follows that people who have been living there have been displaced. And since those people were living in a forest - not in a cabin in a forest - they’re necessarily homeless. Since OP didn’t say that they were building houses or apartments in the forest, that would mean that the wealthier people who displaced them were also homeless.
Since the context was another commenter calling “gentrified forest” a cursed phrase, I don’t think I’m alone in thinking that.
Poor people won’t feel at home if there isn’t trash strewn everywhere. They’d probably avoid going to that place.
You are right, I was thinking the definition more being taking it up market, fancier etc. didn’t realise the term was more for the human effect.
It’s like wilderness for Europeans!
Old people have moved there and the prices have skyrocketed.
This has been happening in New Zealand for a while. The theory seems to be that bins attract more litter and are a hazard to wildlife.
I was sceptical at first but it actually seems to work.
Perturbs me that they are selling food though. Surely yhe food sellers should have bins for which they are responsible in their immediate vicinity.
I don’t think it works. I think the resulting litter is just more distributed and therefore harder to register. Instead of an overflowing trash can, it’s a napkin here, a cup there, and a lot of it ends up eaten by wildlife or in waterways so not very visible.
No, a lot of people are actual decent human beings and understand the simple concept of packing out your own garbage.
If someone sees a full garbage, they aren’t suddenly going to become a decent person, no they add to the pile making it worse. Don’t give them that option, and well most people actually turn decent. Since to throw it on the ground and get caught is different than just “adding to the pile”. It’s amazing what a little public embarrassment can fix.
Or just…actually empty the bins?
And what if someone decides to empty their garbage from their vehicle filling it up and now it’s not being emptied until the next morning?
I’m guessing you would want someone standing there to empty it the second it gets full….?
That might sound backwards but it isn’t
Squirrels and raccoons will rummage, and disperse trash. There isnt much you can do about that beyond 1. Harm wildlife or 2. Reduce trash.
Edit: Damn, this thread is full of people I would be fucking embarrassed to camp with. Where do y’all like to experience the outdoors so I can be sure to not cross your paths?
Or 3, provide animal-proof garbage disposals.
No bears left in blighty.
Yeah, typical Americans - won’t look elsewhere for solutions…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bear-proof-garbage-bins-made-in-lethbridge-1.4542351
Yeah, typical Americans - won’t look elsewhere for solutions…
We have those all over the place. Large National Parks like Yosemite are a special corner of hell because you quite literally have hordes of tourists from all over the world visiting on a daily basis. Randos who’ve rarely ever left the city see a can like that and may not know how to use it. In a place like Yosemite that rando could easily be from anywhere in the world.
Meanwhile I know of dozens of these kinds of cans located in some very small parks and camping areas here in Wyoming and no one has any problems with them at all.
Us “Americans” have those cans already and many of us know how to use them. You’ll need to find some other kind of shit to sling around.
You missed the the bit about dumbest tourists.
I get it that it is hip to hate on Americans right now, but your post is so unnecessarily self-righteous.
It’s been hip to hate on Americans for decades. It’s just more justified now. But you’re right, not because of bears.
I can attest that people around me in the south talk about how they love nature but if opening the trash can requires more than 3 brain cells they will most likely just throw their in the back of their truck and know it will blow out down the road or drop it next to the trash can and be proud they are keeping some custodial staff employed
Or
4. Continue to treat people as spoiled toddlers and hire servants to clean up after them.🙄
Or just like, pollute less and stop relying on others to clean up after you.
Especially when you leave your home.
And you think that’s going to happen by removing the trashcans?
Think?
It’s well established peer reviewed scientific literature.
That paper has nothing to do with trash or cans rofl
And when it’s full or people still don’t want to walk 20 feet to them?
Also nothing is “animal proof” it’s all resistant and reliant on humans not being asses. Which they always prove they are when it comes to garbage.
Providing garbages doesn’t make people use them…
And when it’s full
They don’t magically empty themselves, you have to hire someone to empty them.
Which is the REAL reason places are removing bins. Everything else is just lies. They are reducing labor costs. That is ALL.
or people still don’t want to walk 20 feet to them?
This is the sort of case where I’ll make an effort to pick it up and throw it away. Even better if visibly clean (not in the bushes, not wet) and something somebody may have just forgot.
If there’s no trash can anywhere, I likely won’t unless certain conditions align.
I’ll go out on a limb that Raccoons won’t rummage here :)
I agree with the sentiment but if they have a cafe selling things in disposable packaging then the best thing they can do is provide bins to deal with it. Pretending they don’t generate rubbish is just a false accounting trick.
No racoons here. The previous bins had spring loaded flaps to keep the animals out.
There aren’t many wild camping spots in the UK, especially in forests. Definitely no raccoons either haha. This area would be more for walking or picnicking.
Or 3) change the garbage regularly on a bin with a latching lid. (common in forested areas)
This isn’t just a random bit of forest either, it’s near a shop that’s providing the public with a bunch of disposable items like paper cups and napkins. Not providing somewhere to dispose of those is inevitability going to lead to people leaving their garbage behind.
please clean up after yourself.
Weird, when Japan does it everyone praises them. I guess us western societies are just too trashy to clean up after ourselves.
I came here to comment on Japan, haha. Almost everywhere you go, no trashcans and no trash! Their society is like a hive mind in a lot of ways, though. I’m not sure it’ll work with Rugged American Individualism®
Edit to add: Damn, I just realized OP is in England. Maybe they can make it work.
I looked it up and they seem to still have them in train stations plus in areas where trash/recyclables is expected to be generated (convenience stores, vending machines, parks) so it seems like a bit of a stretch (also the reason for less trash cans being a 1995 sarin gas attack).
Even just the train station bit seems like an unfair comparison for places without any sort of public transportation (where people walked/biked from home). Yeah, I can see people being more likely to hold their trash if passing receptacles is part of their planned route.
Japan takes the garbage bins away from cafes?
No they’re there, however there aren’t trash bins once you leave the food vendor. If you walk away then you’re responsible for the trash. So people just finish eating and dispose the trash there. Even if it’s a stall or food truck, you can hand your trash back to the staff, they will happily accept it.
If it’s for carry-out, people will pack their trash for disposal at home (you’ll see a ton of people walking around with backpacks and totebags).
Yeah for this reason, you don’t see this culture of eating/drinking while on-the-go in Japan lol. It’s too inconvenient. It’s something that tourists have to adjust to. But it’s nice - the country is very clean and beautiful, no trash in sight. You might see some little old lady picking up a piece of trash that isn’t even hers lol. That’s the pride they take in their country.
Also there’s an important difference in Japan that should be mentioned. A lot of the success is due to shame culture. You will feel like a bad person and get the side-eye for littering.
As far as this sign in England - I think suddenly taking away all the trash bins for a place that relies on them would be a disaster! But if that’s the plan, then maybe taking only some away here and there could work over time. People need to be trained after all lol.
Source: I spent 1.5 months in Japan
It’s not actually much different in Germany, there’s zero bins just randomly lining the streets. Areas with shops will have some, parks and playgrounds usually have one or two, but that’s it. “Park” here is to be understood quite broadly, it might be a footpath with nice view and some benches. Bus stops also tend to have bins.
I’ve never been to a Japanese cafe, but knowing what I know about them from Japanese acquaintances, yeah, mostly.
They’d probably either use actual dishware that is returned and washed, or yes, expect people to bring disposable waste home with them. Everything I’ve heard is that public trash bins are not non-existent, but they are rare.
Lots of corner stores and vending machines in Japan that sell basically full meals and no trash can in sight.
I don’t think people realize that custodial staff are different than general park staff. If they have bins then they need to deal with that whole process and have at least one dedicated employee. I’d rather have to carry my trash and let the park use that money elsewhere.
For what it’s worth, I do agree it’s probably “gentrification” in the sense that the concept of carry in/carry out is more prevalent in middle class communities, mostly because they are more likely to engage in hobbies where or go to places where it’s a more prevalent part of the culture. I’m not sure non-middle class people have the same experiences/lifestyle that lead to thinking this makes sense to do.
Everyone praises them? The only times Ive heard (from westerners visiting/moving there) is that it is very annoying that there is never anywhere to throw away their trash
Different experiences then, because most people I’ve spoken to about it there and back home have talked about how clean it was despite that and commended the society for being so responsible with their waste.
This is basically ubiquitous on many public lands, specifically here in the US. The term is “carry in, carry out.” Bins accumulate trash (obviously) which in turn is an attractant for rodents, bears, raccoons, etc. which causes its own problems. Wild animals should not be artificially fed by human trash. Trash can also be blown out of cans, or scattered by animals. Overall, especially for low traffic environments, the best plan is to have people take all their trash out with them.
TL;DR: Pack out your trash.
The problem is parks can’t or won’t hire enough people to empty the bins out.
Because the people paying taxes would rather that money go to actual tangible benefits instead of paying for people’s laziness.
You’re the kind of person who doesn’t return their cart because someone “is paid to do it” aren’t you.
If you’re planning a picnic, you bring your own trash bags, sort your trash, and dispose of it properly. And you will eventually make the effort to produce less rubbish, for example, ask to take your order without napkins or a plastic bag.
You operate a cafe and sell stuff that is trash 5 minutes later? You print a trash bin.
You can always take your trash with you instead of expecting someone else to take it for you. The culture of throwing shit away instead of reusing, and reducing, is so ubiquitous, that’s the infuriating thing.
They should give me tea in a mug instead of a waxed paper cup (and plastic lid!) then!
Does the cafe not have a bin?
I’m not sure if it’s a thing by you, but it’s common where I live to carry your own thermos.
Why can’t they have a dumpster with lid?
People are just going to litter if they didn’t plan ahead to bring a trash bag.
They had some reasonably nice bins with wooden shells around them and spring loaded doors to keep the birds etc out.
Performative capitalism + fake environmentalism at it’s worst. Ugh.
We all know there are plenty of trash cans available in non-capitalist societies, and everyone takes turns emptying them.
Dont know what you mean by performative capitalism, but carry in carry out is pretty standard fare environmentalism. Though these people are not carrying in, they are making the decision to buy onsite and should then accept carry out responsibilities.
