The House on Saturday passed a $95 billion aid package that includes two long-awaited bills with $60.8 billion of Ukraine aid and $26 billion in aid to Israel.
The Ukraine bill, which passed with 311 votes in favor, 112 votes against, and one present, will now head to the Senate alongside the Israel aid bill and two others — one with aid for Taiwan and another that forces Tiktok’s parent company to sell it.
We really need laws against these laws where they just bundle a bunch of good things with a bunch of fucking terrible things, just to get it passed.
Tiktok and Ukraine Aid are entirely different issues, and they really shouldn’t be in the same fucking bill.
Further, “banning” Tiktok is going to just about as well as those “Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics” did in the fucking 90’s. A lot of time, effort, and wasted money for barely any real-world impact.
Tiktok is already becoming unpopular, because just like with Facebook, everyone’s parents want to stay cool and hip and know what the youth are up to. Now its filled with millennials like myself who are pushing out Gen Z because they don’t want us shitting up their spaces. Just like we didn’t want our parents/adults invading our spaces and why millennials bailed on Facebook when it became Boomer central.
You’ve got many good points, and I’m not defending the Tiktok ban (or whatever technical thing it is), but counterpoint your last one:
Look what Facebook did to the boomers. Do we want to go through that again but with Millennials and Tiktok? Our generation has more experience with social media, granted. Still, that’s part joke and part something I think about as an older, non-Tiktok millennial.
Do we want to go through that again but with Millennials and Tiktok?
No, but I don’t think banning an app will solve the problem, just like banning drugs doesn’t solve that issue. We need good education so people have critical thinking skills and can make good decisions for themselves. Even if a legal method was used to address the issue, banning a specific app will do little. I think you’d have to address the algorithmic delivery of content altogether to do this.
Can I ask what the problem is? I was of the understanding that the problem with TikTok was that they basically lied under oath to congress and were actively sending personal user data to China. Not sure anything but an outright ban will achieve any sort of remedy.
Yes, Tik Tok is as bad as any other social media PLUS it’s directly controlled by a hostile nation state to the US. It should absolutely be banned and/or completely divested from China.
Anyone saying this is unfair, go to China and see what their blocks look like for Western companies.
Tik Tok is a terrible platform allowing such direct access to US citizens to a foreign government.
I think the US government is worth being hostile towards.
TikTok is banned in China too. lol
Again, wasn’t defending the ban. Just addressing the other elephant in the room. :)
But yes, agreed. Critical thinking and media literacy skills are key.
While I do agree on including “unrelated” things together, these all sound like they are separate bills in this case.
Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan are all separate bills for “foreign aid”. The article isn’t 100% clear, but TikTok sounds like there is some separation. The reason I think they’re separate is that the article mentioned that they voted on each item, meaning that there’s at least 3-4 different votes.
It’s all the game of politics. “Shake my hand and I’ll shake yours” stuff, and Johnson, regardless of his overall beliefs, seems like he’s well-versed in the game.
If banning TikTok, as inane as that is, ensures we continue to aid Ukraine, then fine, ban it. eye roll
Israel, however, is the matter of getting enough of Rs to vote Yea to outweigh the Maggots. I don’t like it, but the feds spend billions of dollars on tons of stuff I dislike. If allowing a continued genocide in one country means that the same won’t happen in two others…(sigh)
Israel, however, is the matter of getting enough of Rs to vote Yea to outweigh the Maggots. I don’t like it, but the feds spend billions of dollars on tons of stuff I dislike. If allowing a continued genocide in one country means that the same won’t happen in two others…(sigh)
Thank you for actually understanding that there is nuance to all of this. The people screeching about it are rightfully upset, but they seem to completely miss the point that all of these aid packages have to make it through a highly dysfunctional congress.
They just do not understand political capital. Very common problem with populists.
This passed the Senate weeks ago and stalled in the House. The only reason this is even passing is because republicans began drafting an independent bill to fund Israel after the Iran attack, and Biden said he’d veto it if it didn’t include funding for Ukraine and Taiwan.
Israel, however, is the matter of getting enough of Rs to vote Yea to outweigh the Maggots. I don’t like it, but the feds spend billions of dollars on tons of stuff I dislike. If allowing a continued genocide in one country means that the same won’t happen in two others…(sigh)
And it’s not as if a lack of funding would stop them anyway. It’s largely symbolic and to ensure Israel keeps buying American.
I agree on keeping bills separate, but you seem to be confused. Tiktok wasn’t in the same bill, the help for Ukraine, Taiwan and Israel was bundled together.
The reason for it was that the current speaker actually wanted help for Israel and Taiwan but was holding the bill because of Ukraine, which his orange friend doesn’t support.
This is why it was held. Why the speaker had a sudden change of heart?
It was because two Republicans threatened to resign, leaving Democrats in majority and getting speakership (I wish that outcome would actually happened).
So he brought those bills to vote, but he split the bills. Because of it, now they have to go back to Senate, adding another unnecessary delay.
This is why it was held. Why the speaker had a sudden change of heart?
nah, it was:
Mr. Johnson attributed his turnabout in part to the intelligence briefings he received, a striking assertion from a leader of a party that has embraced former President Donald J. Trump’s deep mistrust of the intelligence community. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/us/politics/mike-johnson-turnaround.html
In some ways, a bit scary that what they told him really convinced him so readily. On the other hand I’m glad he was able to turn down local US politics (something I don’t feel Republicans have been doing recently) and focus on external politics.
If it was so urgent, why did he split it so it now the bill has to go through the Senate again?
What do you mean?
There was one bill that included help for Ukraine, Taiwan and Israel. Republicans only had problems with the former.
If Ukraine was so important why did Mike split the bill. By splitting it, he made a change and because of that the bill needs to be voted on yet again in the Senate. If he didn’t split it, Biden could just sign it immediately.
I’m confused where the aspect of urgency is coming from. I never asserted that Johnson was doing things urgently.
Sorry, I saw similar comments and people saying that finally understands how urgent it is based on CIA briefing (as he said).
The thing is that I don’t buy it. If he really thought it was as important and urgent, he would not split the bill and Biden likely would sign it on the same day, but instead it went back to the Senate.
My belief is that his position was threatened, and if he get replaced (especially if it is true that two Republicans threatened to resign) he won’t be able to block other bills for Biden, because Democrats would control the house.
While I agree with you in general, this is not what happened in this case.
The House voted on the four bills in succession, one day after a rare and extraordinary bipartisan coalition teed up the votes, with more Democrats (165) than Republicans (151) voting for the “rule” to proceed to the measures.
There was roughly speaking the Ukraine bill, the Israel bill, the Taiwan and other aid bill, and the tik tok bill. All separately passed. Ukraine funding was not on the same bill passed as the TikTok thing today.
Combining issues in bills isn’t always bad and can be a vehicle toward compromise too. Separating things can even be a way of killing a bill. There are pros and cons, really depends on the situation.
millennials bailed on Facebook when it became Boomer central
I get your point, but it wasn’t everyone’s reason for leaving. For example, I enjoyed having my family members on the same platform as me, but I actually left because of the shit moderation team that punishes the good people and praises the terrible ones. Resentment grows when you’re punished over some bullshit arbitrary reason because a mod with an agenda got some bullshit report.
Sorry for the tangent to your main points, but social media has bigger problems than one group invading another.
This is how politics gets done at this level. I give you something, you give me something.
Even if bills were separated, there’d just be back room agreements to combine them informally.
At the very least, we need a way to bring popular legislation to the floor without party gatekeepers holding it back. Ukraine arguably could have passed with ease - if a standalone bill made it to the floor.
It would get passed with ease together too, as the hangups were because of Ukraine which the speaker and his orange handler had problems with.
The only reason this was brought to a vote is because two Republicans threatened to resign, which would give Democrats control of the house, which would be a much better outcome, as Republicans essentially are freezing the Congress.
To your last point, the bill is targeted at any app owned by a foreign adversary, so whether or not kids move away from tiktok, it will accomplish the same objective.
TikTok and Ukraine aid were voted on and passed separately; furthermore, the vote wasn’t for an outright ban, but rather a threat of banning if TikTok does not divest from China.
Well, technically this isn’t a law until it’s passed in the Senate and signed by the POTUS.
It will cause TikTok to be sold, not banned
Why does Israel need aid? To help them invade someone more?
The realpolitik answer is that they’re the only country in the region with highly functioning western-style market economy. That is valuable to other functioning western style market economies. Its a system trying to help itself propagate.
The way your 'y’s alling on this post made my day! (mildly)
That doesn’t make any sense, considering support for Israel was the main cause behind the 9/11 attacks.
Seems like support for Israel is good for one nation: Israel.
The cause of 9/11 is US influence in the land of Mecca.
Weird way to spell “They are white just like us” but ok ig
Lol wtf
You’ll understand when you’re older.
Funny that you suggest that while acting like an old child
They need the moneys to genocide harder, better, faster, stronger.
Wowowow, keep Daft Punk out of this
But how can we when the Israeli apartheid regime is trying to take their shitshow around the world around the WORld?
I guess shells are in high demand, currently. I don’t expect much but I hope the Senate votes it down or removes the majority of the Israel aid package. Currently it’s about 12 Billion USD worth of various support in addition to 14 Billion “Unconditional Military Support” while dealing with Iran.
If I had to rationalize it, I expect they simply want to give the bare minimum to avoid requiring sending soldiers to invade Iran directly. In my opinion, we’d be justified to “invade” Israel and oust the Netanyahu administration, solving the entire problem a lot cheaper.
If I had to rationalize it, I expect they simply want to give the bare minimum to avoid requiring sending soldiers to invade Iran directly.
Nah, the bare minimum to avoid sending soldiers to Iran is whatever it costs to send Israel a message saying “Lol, get fucked.”
Israel has made their bed, let them lie in it now. I really don’t see the US being able to sell an invasion of Iran at this point.
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Poor Israel can barely afford to murder children anymore.
If you’re an American, the hypocrisy is palpable
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No. It’s all your fault for not campaigning harder. Go sit in the corner and blame yourself. Never question the current election process.
I wouldn’t set foot in that country.
Fuck russia, fuck israel.
And fuck the house.
“Fuck the House” would be a good name for a casino heist movie if movies could have ‘fuck’ in the title.
Movies can have a little bit of fuck in the title, as a treat.
Mum: We have fuck at home
Home: Heck
I’m adding Fuck Off! Images of Finland to my watch list.
That DOES sound very romantic! 😆
American Fiction dragged a little at times, but the decision to name his book “Fuck” was brilliant.
And my axe!
No! Wait! (Lengthy pause)
Use the axe to fuck the house, Israel AND the Orcs! Much better plan.
In the middle of the street.
Should be 86.8 bil to Ukraine and 0 to the terrorist organisation of Isreal
“Can’t” afford universal healthcare, and “can’t” afford student debt relief, but we sure can magic up money for killing!
The US government spends more per capita in healthcare than any country with universal healthcare and then a big chunk of the population also pays for private health insurance over that.
It’s not about not being able to afford it, it would even be cheaper.
That’s just the efficiency of the free market. It’s certainly efficient at something, just not delivering quality health care or keeping costs down.
That’s why I put can’t in quotes. We obviously can (because, as you pointed out, we already do) but there’s a minority of Americans wielding outsized amounts of power keeping it from happening.
I’m sure 90% of the actual value of that money won’t go to killing. It’s gonna be going to military contractor profits. So 10% is going to production and transport of the killing tools. The rest is shareholder pool parties and yachts. It’s still not healthcare. It’s still pretty bad. But hey, at least a small part of it will stop some people getting raped by Russian invaders.
Oh don’t get me wrong, we should be doing far more to help Ukraine. It’s just frustrating to hear about all the things we “can’t” afford and how we can’t raise the debt, yet have some magical well full of unlimited money when it comes to military spending.
It’s not about affordability at all. The people that are willing to loan the US money are only willing to loan the US money for guns and bullets to go to Israel, money to Ukraine is good as long as its for more guns and bullets because weapons have a great ROI. Healthcare for all in the US has poor ROI so there is no point t to it. People are replaceable here in the US. That’s why they’re trying to push through AI way too early on us all.
With the coming Grant’s Pass Supreme Court decision to legalize slavery against homeless people coming soon, who needs regular employees. Just CCI Prison Slaves for all your manual labor needs. Also, all the former abolitionist states have now passed total gun control legislation so people will no longer be able to break out their slave family members from their prison worksites.
I never wanted to actually live in the Cyberpunk 2020 world. I was just hoping for some of the bonuses instead of all of the negatives.
TBF, funding towards anti-air systems like shooting down drones is kind of the opposite of killing. But yeah, Fuck Israel.
Yes, because killing Russian military saves lives. Russia is shelling cities in Ukraine, killing civilians. Your problems are valid, but are nothing compared to getting killed in your sleep by a Russian rocket
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[citation needed]
and another that forces Tiktok’s parent company to sell it.
Capitalists never play fair, lol.
Can’t wait to see some stupid western company take the place of tiktok then all the retards complaining about tiktok suddenly shutting up.
They don’t realize there’s a trade war going on and they’re just useful idiots in it.
TikTok is cancer regardless of who owns it.
And at the same time if you preach so much free market economics then you should just learn to live with it and don’t buy the product if you don’t like it
Please show me an example where I
preach so much free market economics
(If you don’t find one it’s because I never did.)
I think they were referring to the ones who voted to ban it
Exactly
Anything from China is anything but free market. Chinese companies are still owned by the state who practice state capitalism.
Don’t fall for the straw man.
It’s not a strawman, commie.
They meant the argument you were responding to, the obvious strawman, and not what you said.
Free market for me but not for thee.
Yes, there is a trade war.
Don’t be naive about NSA and US propaganda/surveillance.
There doesn’t need to have NSA propaganda when China themselves say they are state capitalists and allow billionaires to flourish.
That’s not true at all. China has state owned businesses and private owned businesses. You think the Boeing and Microsoft locations in China are owned by the CCP?
If you’re being pedantic, you’re right, but Chinese companies are still Chinese state-owned-- which Tiktok is.
that is bs with regard to the facts.
Cry about it. I can taste your tears from here.
No. There’s privately owned industry in China.
Of course you’d lie.
Part of maintaining a free market is regulations that punish anti-competitive behaviour.
Sucks for the rich, but I, the average consumer do not care about what some rich guy’s stocks are doing. I will always go for the cheaper, more accessible, better product.
Nah. I don’t think Bytedance sells. The big enchilada is the source code and that’s not getting sold because there’s 6 Billion more people they can get on the app.
There are several right-wing groups eager to buy it, which is 100% why they’re going after it.
Reddit, Twitter, TikTok, and Facebook. They’re going to control all of it soon.
Din they’ll be requiring expensive identity verification for online accounts to make the fediverse financially unsustainable.
I wonder if Orange Julius Caesar will be getting an aggrieved call from Pootin…
Ahead of the vote, former President Donald Trump issued a confusing statement that sympathized with both the pro- and anti-Ukraine aid factions of the GOP without taking a clear position.
very much. more and more.
That guy still wasn’t fired?
You mean with actual fire, right?
You have to wait for the ultra-right to wake up Monday morning and have someone tell them what to think.
I’m against one of those. And no, it’s not the TikTok ban.
EDIT: Slava Ukrayini, heroyam slava! Hopefully that should make things less ambiguous.
"I don’t Want to Beat Around the Bush♫♪♪
Foxtrot. Uniform. Charlie. Kilo. Israel."
